THE DOG STARS Composer Harry Gregson-Williams Tells WAMG What Its Like To Collaborate With Ben Affleck, Andrew Adamson And Ridley Scott

ANTZ. SHREK. CHICKEN RUN. Since the 1990’s, film goers have been listening to the music of the incredibly talented composer, Harry Gregson-Williams, who helped shape the sound of modern animated films.

Gregson-Williams’s recent projects include the feature film THE DOG STARS, directed by Ridley Scott, starring Jacob Elordi, Margaret Qualley, and Josh Brolin which is in cinemas now and marks their eighth collaboration together and the upcoming ANIMALS starring Ben Affleck and Kerry Washington, directed by Affleck coming out in theaters on October 9 which marks their fourth collaboration together.

His previous films with Ben Affleck include Live by Night, THE TOWN, and GONE BABY GONE. Gregson-Williams is also known for his continued collaborations with Ridley Scott having written original scores for GLADIATOR II, THE MARTIAN, KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, THE LAST DUEL and HOUSE OF GUCI and themes for PROMETHEUS and EXODUS: GODS AND KINGS.

A riveting, cinematic thriller set in a world where survival is instinct, but humanity is a choice, THE DOG STARS is in theaters now. The film tells the story of Hig (Jacob Elordi), a young pilot who, together with a military survivalist, Bangley (Josh Brolin), has carved out an efficient but isolated homestead in a brutal post-apocalyptic world. But when Hig receives a mysterious radio transmission, he ventures into the unknown in search of the hope and humanity he still believes exist. Based on Peter Heller’s captivating bestseller, THE DOG STARS features a critically acclaimed ensemble, including Jacob Elordi, Josh Brolin, Margaret Qualley, Allison Janney, Benedict Wong, and Guy Pearce.

In a recent interview with the composer, Gregson-Williams and I discussed the wide range of films he’s worked on, his love of conducting his scores and collaborating on some of the grandest films with the most prolific directors.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m Michelle from We Are Movie Geeks.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Good title. Did you see Dog Stars?

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I did. Totally gutted by it. I really liked it. Been a huge fan of Ridley Scott’s since ALIEN.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, thanks.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I mean, I’ve been with this guy forever. I saw ALIEN that opening weekend when I was all of age 13, and it was, like, my first R-rated movie, so I have been with him since the beginning.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Wow. My relationship with him started with, in a roundabout way, started when I met his brother, and I scored ENEMY OF THE STATE, MAN ON FIRE, SPY GAME, THE TAKING OF THE PELHAM 1, 2, 3, all Tony’s films from from 1996 to the day he died, sadly. My intro to Ridley really started on the film KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, which I loved. I think it’s quite an underrated movie. It’s so gorgeous to look at.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Isn’t it?

Harry Gregson-Williams: It’s amazing and here we are 20 years later.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Fans love the director’s cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yes, they do, and Ridley does as well. I remember when we were scoring it, and the film was pretty much what we see as the director’s cut now, but he was aware that he was going to have to cut it down for theaters for its theatrical release. And I remember asking him, how are you going to do that really? Because it doesn’t to me. I can’t see how you can do that. It seemed like a perfectly formed movie as it was, and he said, No, I’ve got a cunning plan. There’s something that I’m going to have to take out reluctantly for the cinematic release, but I’m going to pop it right back in if ever I can get a director’s cut, and sure enough, he did.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How did the conversation go with bringing you on his latest film?

Harry Gregson-Williams: Shortly after we finished GLADIATOR II, actually.  He’s very prolific, isn’t he? He seems to be working on the next one when we’re doing the present one, you know, thinking about it, planning it. He never stops. He’s industrious, but you know he’s a real artist at heart, literally he is. He paints for fun, and I think that’s how his brother started at art school in London, and they started in commercials and then came here to Los Angeles. He told me THE DOG STARS would be a very different ride, and I must say I was quite relieved. He said those words after we’d finished GLADIATOR II, because that was so intense. He said this is going to be a thoughtful movie about human connection and loss and the sharing of those emotions.

And then he scuttled off and shot it. He sent me the first cut and asked me to consider the score, and what to share with him, what I might be thinking of the 1st cut that I saw. I realized that I unlike, say, in our previous film, Gladiator II, where I leaned very heavily on an orchestral component to the score, but it didn’t seem that I would need that in this movie, although I did record orchestra, but it is one of the components that makes up the kind of sonic tapestry of what I went for. It seemed to me, as it’s not an urban movie, that it is set very much in the countryside. I started experimenting with all manner of shapes and sizes of guitars, electric and acoustic, ukuleles, Dobros. Anything that felt akin to what I saw on screen. And that’s kind of why I landed the palette for this movie. The musical palette for this movie was very much based on those instruments supported by the foundation that an orchestra can give you. This isn’t a big sweeping orchestral score. It didn’t seem like this. This story really needs to burst out in moments of anger and aggression, which are very fun to do. But the score is trying to carve out these emotions that the characters are feeling. It’s quite a personal movie, it’s a small cast of characters, and they share a lot of things in common, like loss. 

There’s the hope of something better somewhere else. But it’s interesting to work on a movie like this when all of us went through a COVID pandemic, which didn’t wipe out most of humanity, which I guess is a movie.

That’s where we find ourselves, but the possibility of something like that happening is a bit more real to us now, isn’t it? We saw huge swathes of the population threatened by something, and I guess that sort of leads us to believe that something like this, which is obviously more extreme, could result in the sort of scenario we find ourselves in THE DOG STARS. I loved the script and the geography of it all, even down to the plane. I remember saying to Ridley, God, I love the look of that plane, Rid. I love the color of it. It’s kind of mustard yellow.

These things are very intentional with him. I think the first cue that I wrote was Hig’s first flight, right at the beginning of the film. And that, just for me, Hig seems to be at his happiest and freest when he’s up in the air with his best buddy, which, of course, is his dog, Jasper, and that’s where he feels like he’s safest and happiest. There’s no dialogue up there, so music can help really inform the audience, the sort of emotional space that Hig is in, and of course that deteriorates during the film. It’s not always a happy place for him.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: There’s some heavy material in this. I mean, the whole end of the world.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, he spends a lot of time in his head, Hig? I mean, that’s what’s fascinating about his character and sometimes the music is able to inform us and help us and suggest things that he might be thinking of. I mean, in one scene, he’s up there, and he literally turns the engine off and we’ve got to wonder to ourselves, is he going to kill himself? Surely not. He’s got a dog beside him and musically, in that moment the music cue that I’d written had started maybe a minute or 2 before that, probably when Hig took off, I decided that the most effective way I could score that moment as he turns the engine off would be to come out into nothing at all and just have the sound effects of the wind breezing by, so there, you know, a lot of choices that one has to make along the way. Hopefully, that was a decent one.

There’s a sense of loneliness. There is a lot in most of these situations he finds himself in. And I think that’s why, you know, it is a movie about connection and the need for connection and again, just going back to our own experiences with Covid, which must be perhaps the closest we’ve kind of come to that. Not exactly a decimation of humanity. But the fact that we were isolated, weren’t we? And that sense of isolation, I think it comes through pretty well in this film. And the fact that each of these characters are craving some sort of human connection.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I just need to ask you about the music cue for Jasper and his death, I mean, it just breaks the heart. I was listening to it again, I’ve listened to it a few times, and it’s such an emotional part of the movie, and the music is just perfect for that scene.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Ridley has dogs himself. I have a dog. And yeah, that was kind of a tough, tough moment. You know, my first effort at that moment in the score, Ridley’s reaction to it was, how much do we need the music here? How much do you think most audience members need help in feeling sorry for this moment? And the answer is not much. I mean, most people really would understand how hit he is by that moment. So, I was careful not to make the music overly sentimental, and that was very important, but as a sort of default in moments like that, rather than step into sentiment and too much emotion where the audience might be pushed away a little bit by that.

I’ve learned often in movies that I’ve done, not necessarily just movies I’ve done with Ridley, but a default sort of setting I would go for is more tension and leave the audience in a tense state with an underlying feeling of loss and the emotions that go with that. So, my 1st approach to it isn’t sadness, but like a sort of tension and suspended moment, so that the audience have a chance to feel what they want to feel, and the music’s not necessarily telling them they must feel this.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I thought there was just enough in it without it just bowling you over and taking over the scene. I did love the various cues and other parts of the movie, where there were a lot of guitars, folk sounds, as well as these classic rock sounds, like the Mennonite folk song, that was so unique. I was not expecting that.

Harry Gregson-Williams: That was written by Tony Lewis, who’s my music editor on this film. And he often will write music on the films that we do, from GLADIATOR II, all the way back to KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, music that we reference as source music. So that’s music that’s not actually the score. It’s music that has a source so that you can see that on screen. So, for instance, in another movie, in a romantic comedy or something, a piece of source music might be a couple walking into a room, and someone puts on the radio. That’s coming from a source, and that’s music that has to be provided, but not necessarily by the composer. I have enough music to create from nowhere that’s not got a source on screen. So the source music in this instance that you’re referring to is written by Tony Lewis. Yes. And I included that on the album because I liked it.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: At the end of the movie the very quietness of it. I loved that very emotional cue where Hig goes home. It was just a very nice way to take a breath.

Harry Gregson-Williams: There’s plenty of melancholy at that moment, isn’t it? And music is essentially an emotion, but without language. Right? So there’s in that scene he’s as he takes off by himself this time. No dog to go with him, and returns home, where we have a flashback of his wife for the last time patting him on the shoulder, as if to say, go, be free, you’ve got to move on. And yeah, the music is very sparse there, and the intention is that it has a sense of loneliness, and you know, deep emotion. But again, without hitting the audience over the head with that, allowing the actor Jacob Elordi to do his thing, and the audience to catch up to that moment. This is him saying goodbye to his wife.

But in this part, the world suddenly erupts into gunfire and explosions and violence. And that’s the two scenes with Bangley trying to defend the homestead and then Hig and Cima and Pops getting chased down by the people on horseback.

That’s kind of classic Ridley who knows how to stage an action sequence. But I love the dynamic in this film, and that gave me an opportunity musically to have a range in the score. Sometimes you’re scoring a film, and one’s kind of channeling one emotion, one feeling, one kind of tempo, if you like. But in this film the dynamic range had to be quite big, as we’ve already established. There are some very lonely, melancholy moments in the film, but they’re also exciting, tense action scenes. So that’s always fun as a composer to have such a dynamic in what one’s got to provide. It keeps life interesting, I can tell you.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How has the relationship with Ridley Scott developed over the years? You went from KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, PROMETHEUS, HOUSE OF GUCCI, GLADIATOR II and now this film. You two have done a lot of films together.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Well, how’s it developed over the years? Good question. I think it’s 8 or 9 movies that I’ve done with him.

He’s very steady and dependable and very interested in music. He understands the power of music in his films. Yeah, very much, very much so. And he’s sympathetic towards the process, which, the more time we get together, the better things are going to be. Obviously, in post-production, he’s pulled in many directions. You know, he’s got to review the edit, he’s got to review any visual effects that are going on as well as music. So yeah, I’ve learned over the years to make sure I schedule time with him, get him to come to my studio here and listen to ideas early. And he, in turn, has increasingly involved me earlier and earlier, so that there’s plenty of time for me to maybe go up one path, and there’s time for me to come back down that path a bit, and then go off in another direction, if need be, you know, sometimes as a composer once employed with so little time that probably your 1st idea has got to be, if not your 1st, your second idea has got to be the one. Once he sets sail and gets going, it’s a Ridley Scott movie. With GLADIATOR II, there was perhaps 100 min of music to write. I started as soon as he had finished shooting, and the post-production was a year and a half. So, I’ve learned that the more time I get, the better results we’re going to have. He’s all up for that. He loves the process.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: You can tell. And there was a great video that was released, with him talking about the music of GLADIATOR II, and how you work together. It was fascinating. Music is a huge part of his films, he gives a lot of consideration to how the music is going to sound, because it is an important part of his films.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yes, he does. And, you know, with Ridley, it’s a very collaborative process, and it needs to be, and one needs to be very open as a composer. But I’m also very aware that he has a lot of choices. Over the years he’s had people like Hans Zimmer, Vangelis, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith. I don’t expect the phone to go. But if the phone does ring and it’s ringing, I’m more than happy to jump on board. I love it.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Let’s switch to your upcoming project ANIMALS, Ben Affleck’s movie. What can you tell us about that?

Harry Gregson-Williams: I can tell you it’s a really good film and Ben’s in it and directing it. The last one that we did together where he was in it and directed it. Oh, I’ve done two with him that he’s been in and directed. One was LIVE BY NIGHT, and the other one, which I think a lot of people like, is THE TOWN and he was really good in that. The first film that he directed that I scored was GONE BABY, GONE. He stuck his brother in that.

When their son is kidnapped, an LA mayoral candidate and his wife scramble to raise the ransom while making choices that could tear their world apart. Directed by and starring Ben Affleck, with Kerry Washington, Steven Yeun, Gillian Anderson, Adriana Paz and Luis Gerardo Méndez, Animals is in select theaters and on Netflix October 9.

With ANIMALS, he asked me to do that around last Christmas. I got a call from him saying that he was a bit stuck with the music, and I said, I’ll do it. You don’t have to ask me twice, of course. So, I jumped into it, and I love it. I think it’s maybe the best part I’ve ever seen Ben in as an actor. I love it. Yeah, he’s good, really good. And it weirdly sort of perversely, he’s quite suited to the main role, because a lot of the movie takes place almost entirely within a very small radius of where I’m sitting right now, which is very close to where Ben has always lived since I’ve known him. So it’s Brentwood, the Palisades, Santa Monica – the west side of Los Angeles. And if you know this part of town, you recognize where he shot it. I mean, literally recognize streets, and places, and he plays a character so believable. I love it. And very similar to what we were just talking about with THE DOG STARS. There’s a huge dynamic range in this film. It was a tense thriller and I really liked it. I really liked the film, and I really liked his performance in it.

He’s really a thoughtful director and when it comes to music, he loves to be really involved, and we live close to each other and always have, actually on this side of LA and he will pop up in my studio of an evening pretty much unannounced. He likes to, he loves to, to, to kind of learn every beat of every bar of music that I’m creating and be there to influence its direction. You know, he’s a bit of a dream to work for as a composer, because he’s got a very clear direction, a very clear sense of the emotions that he’s trying to evoke. And this film is no different. No, it’s great fun. I can’t wait for it to come out.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81757047

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m looking forward to it. We’ve been listening to you since the 90s. I can’t tell you, I’m such a huge fan of CHICKEN RUN. I totally love it!

Harry Gregson-Williams: How did you like CHICKEN RUN 2?

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I love CHICKEN RUN and the second one, FLUSHED AWAY, SHREK, NARNIA, THE MEG, and with these films and your scores, they’re campy, fun “make-believe” musical characters.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Well, I’ve considered myself very, very lucky to have done the Shrek series in the beginning. But mostly during that time, the chap who directed the first couple of Shreks and executive produced all of them, Andrew Adamson, called me one day after we did Shrek 2 and said, “Look. I think I’m going to be directing The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and The Wardrobe. You wanna do it? I said, well, my God. So I don’t take these things for granted. That’s the great fortune I had there that Andrew went from Shrek to Narnia. I mean, had he gone from Shrek to, I don’t know, something else that might be okay. But that was a dream for me to be able to go into the Narnia series.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m such a huge fan of FLUSHED AWAY and CHICKEN RUN. I think that your CHICKEN RUN score is so funny.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, I’ve got one for you. I wonder whether you’ve seen it. So it’s by the same people, the CHICKEN RUN people, but it’s the only one at that time they had only ever made their Claymation, you know, the stop motion thing, CHICKEN RUN.

But then they made a film called ARTHUR CHRISTMAS with Sony. That was an animation, as it were, computer generated animation, not little clay figures. And I love that film.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: These other films, they’re so much fun, and they’re fun to listen to, and the score just goes so well with those films, because they’re very different from the serious dramas.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Of course. I have 6 children, so I have to keep making movies, at least the younger ones, the older ones, they’re fine. They can watch movies. You know, there’s a few movies that I’ve done that I’ve had to keep hidden from the younger children, like Team America or whatever. That’s a no-go. Movies like Arthur Christmas, Flushed Away, Chicken Run, Chicken Run 2, Shrek, those things my kids, the younger ones, can watch. Obviously the ones who were around when I did SHREK, they’re much older, so they’ll enjoy THE DOG STARS where ANIMALS is kind of a tense thriller.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Have you conducted any of your scores?

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, all of them.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How do you like that? I’ve talked to some composers where they’re like, not on your life. I would never conduct any of my music. But you seem to like it.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, I do. It’s part of my process, so there are two trains of thought, I think, as composers and both are completely valid. You know, my old buddy Hans Zimmer doesn’t conduct his scores, but he knows how to do a score. There’s no prizes for conducting your own score. It’s a preference.

If you think about it, sort of geographically, if you’re conducting the score, you’re in with the orchestra, you can hear a certain amount of what’s going on, but you’ve got headphones on. If you don’t, somebody else will conduct the orchestra and you’ll be in the control room where you can hear precisely what’s going on. So that’s why a lot of composers would probably prefer to be in the control room because they’re control freaks. It’s not called the control room for no reason. No, what they’re trying to achieve is, you know, it doesn’t really matter who’s conducting the score.

They’re trying to achieve the best results, the best performance, and the best place to hear that, from their point of view, is in the control room. So for me, the best place for me to do that is out in the room with the orchestra, but it’s just a preference and doesn’t mean much either way.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Thank you so much. This has been a real treat.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, it’s an absolute pleasure, Michelle, and I hope you like ANIMALS when it comes out. I think Ben’s really good in this film. He’s never been better.

Steven Price, Composer Of COYOTE vs ACME, Sits Down With WAMG To Discuss His Latest Movie

Over the final weekend of August, something special happened. A movie that wasn’t supposed to see the light of day did. And what happened next was magical – COYOTE VS ACME “bolstered by an online rescue effort and strong reviews, debuted to $15.4 million.” (Indiewire) It was a huge hit with audiences and the film earned an A CinemaScore.

After enduring years of catastrophic product failures at the hands of ACME, Inc, a tenacious, unemployed coyote (Wile E. Coyote) uncovers a corporate cover-up and spearheads an unhinged battle against the multinational conglomerate that’s been blowing him up in the name of profit. Teaming up with billboard accident lawyer Kevin Avery (Will Forte), he takes on slick corporate counsel Buddy Crane (John Cena) and ACME, Inc., the profit-obsessed conglomerate behind every one of the Coyote’s chaotic catastrophes.

From director Dave Green, Coyote vs. Acme is a movie about a hero who always keeps going, no matter what is thrown in his path. As Jim Batts wrote in his review, the film “really has “heart”.

The thing that unlocked the whole movie for me was this idea that we watch cartoons and we laugh at the cartoon characters in them, and we laugh at their cartoon pain. We always have! So, in some ways, the idea of this movie was of us saying, ‘We’re sorry!’ This idea that Wile E. Coyote has been through 75 years of mistreatment and is totally sick and tired of it!” Green says.

“That then became, ‘Well, what if we treated his problem seriously? What if this whole thing wasn’t just a lark but went deeper and explored themes that we haven’t gotten to explore before?’ That was what excited me. This question: ‘What if we created real, actual empathy for Wile E. Coyote?’”

Producer producer Chris deFaria says ““We all believe that we’re Road Runner, but deep down inside, we know we are actually Wile E. Coyote.”

To help answer that musically, Green turned to the Oscar-winning composer Steven Price. For 30 years Price has been composing soundtracks for lauded movies in diverse genres. From the space opera of Alfonso Cuaron’s Gravity to the war-torn battlefields of the Brad Pitt-starring Fury, not to mention a four-time action-comedy collaboration with Edgar Wright dating back to 2013’s The World’s End, his work has amplified stories, loading them with thrills and emotion.

For Coyote vs. Acme, Price was tasked with creating an original score that pays homage to classic Looney Tunes music by legendary composer Carl Stalling, while musically bringing the cartoon characters into a modern-day story of corporate intrigue and courtroom drama.

I recently spoke with the composer about his brainwave that would define the unmistakable sound of Coyote vs. Acme. In our discussion about the film, we talked about his research on the classic tracks from the Looney Tunes universe, why we should root for the Coyote, and his obsession with composing scores to give films their unique voice.

WAMG: The first time we spoke was on August 21, 2013 and here it is August 21, 2026. And we spoke about your work on Edgar Wright’s THE WORLD’s END

Steven Price: What a coincidence. The first interview I ever did.

WAMG: Coyote vs Acme. Oh, my gosh. I saw it last week. The movie that almost wasn’t is now here. Reviews are fantastic. It’s doing so well on Rotten Tomatoes.

Steven Price: Yeah, it’s been amazing to see it because it’s been quite the journey, shall we say.

WAMG: How were your first approached about composing and how did David Green say, Hey, I think you’d be great on this film?

SP: I just got called in for a meeting they were cutting in London and they called me in for a chat. They sent me the script, first of all, actually. I remember thinking it was incredibly smart. And I had a vague memory of the original article it’s all based on. I think it’s 1990 in the New Yorker. There was the original Coyote versus Acme sort of article. It’s such a great idea, the idea that he would finally sue for all of the terrible inventions that he’d bought over the years. And the script was amazing. The script was really smart and it felt like this is a really interesting way of revisiting these characters. And it’s got the best of all worlds. You get the fun of the chases and all the sort of slapstick stuff. But at the same time, you’ve got an emotional story about these cartoon characters. So that was exciting. And then I went in, they showed me, I think, 2 sequences that weren’t finished animation or anything like that, but you just got a sense of it and you realized that he was just absolutely nailing this idea. And wouldn’t it be fun to get to do music? And we talked about music and seemed to get along. So that was the start. And then it was a great experience writing it really.

WAMG: The musical cues match all the physicality, the edits, the sound effects. And how did you start planning out how you were going to combine the traditional Looney Tune world that we grew up with real life.

SP: I think the film kind of helps you out because it’s the first thing I was tackling was the start of the film, which is these incredible, authentic Looney Tunes kind of action sequences. And I’d obviously grown up with the cartoons, but I went back and rewatched lots and lots of them. And you’re kind of struck by how amazing the music is in those things and how, they didn’t have computers and all that. They were doing it for real back in the day. The first time they heard it was when it was played on the stage.

And it’s so accurate to the picture. It’s so imaginative. And the way they use the musicians and the orchestra swirling around and people are overblowing instruments to get really sort of pictorial noises out of them and that sort of thing. That was all very inspiring, so I started off doing that. And that was when I kind of established my themes as well. And then you got to take those ideas, but also thread them through into this courtroom kind of drama and this tale of intrigue and corporate espionage and all that stuff. But it was all kind of interlinked and it was kind of fun to work out how you could join the two and make them feel true all the time. It could work for the original Looney Tunes stuff and it would be full of that sort of character. But at the same time, you could slide that in and hopefully make you feel something for cartoon characters that you may not have looked at in that way before.

WAMG: Throughout the whole movie, you can hear the iconic voices of June Foray and Mel Blanc, as well as the traditional Looney Tunes we all grew up with. For many that was their first exposure to classical music like the Minute Waltz from Chopin, the Barber of Seville. Rossini, the William Tell Overture, Richard Wagner’s Tannhauser, and “What’s Opera, Doc” in 1957. So let’s talk about the professional choir singing Roadrunner’s signature Meep Meep, which I thought was so genius.

SP: Oh, it was one of those ideas that came to you and you kind of, you had to work out whether you dare suggest it because it seems so silly. But in my mind, the coyote, Wiley, he’s just an obsessive, right? All he thinks about is the roadrunner. He wants to catch and eat the roadrunner. That’s all he wants in the world. And he keeps trying and every day tries a different way. And the obsession grows and grows and grows. And the idea came. that, maybe he’s haunted by that. Maybe he’s so frustrated after all these years of failure that all he hears in his head is this meep, meep of the thing that keeps getting away from him, you know, all the time it’s going on. And almost felt like it could be like a horror thing, you know, and in his head was this constant sort of mocking him, this meep, meep, meep, meep thing. And so the idea came of doing that with a choir. And I said that to Dave and he was like, that sounds fun. And of course, you can’t demo anything like that because you have to do it for real to know it’s going to work. So then we just had this ridiculous afternoon in Abbey Road, Studio One with a choir, getting them to make that noise. And it was so funny when it first started to happen. You just stood there going, this is good fun. This is great.

WAMG: That’s what I was going to ask you. What was the reaction from the singers, from the choir? When they first get the sheet music, were they, this is great? Were they laughing? Were they like, yeah, this is going to work?

SP: I mean, they’re up for anything, which is great. We had to sit down at the start and have a conversation with them about what the noise was going to be. And I literally had to ask, if you think of the Roadrunner, do you think “beep” or do you think “meep”? And everyone voted for it. And we had to try it both ways because I’ve always thought it’s meep in the cartoon, but if you see it written down, it’s beep. And we tried and it seemed to work that it was meep. So we had that conversation and tried it a few times and then they just seemed to enjoy it, over-enunciating to make it funnier and funnier. And we ended up with the version of the “1812 Overture” with them meeping all over it as well. That was glorious fun.

WAMG: Wasn’t it? When you first hear it, its the Roadrunner, but then you realize, oh, it’s vocals. Oh, my gosh, it’s just mad genius.

SP: There’s something psychotic about it, isn’t there, when you hear it sort of classically like that.

WAMG: And what was the conversation with the film editor or sound editor to have that presence, but for it to be in the background.

SP: We constantly chipped away at it really. I was doing demos from very early on and we all work really closely together. Dave, the director, cast and the editor, myself, we were all constantly trying things and it was kind of fascinating how the comedy would work in these things. You were literally talking about A-frame or two frames would make a massive difference, you know, whether where they cut it or where I placed the music with it. It’s kind of, we had to be really careful to get those moments right because it could make something, feel exciting, feel funny or not, if you got that wrong. So we did a lot of trial and error and Dave was very patient to try a lot of things with me and we’d go a couple of different directions in some places and it gradually started to lock together. And then of course you get the glorious day where you get to record it properly and hear it for real rather than just me sitting in a room pressing keyboards.

WAMG: Since your start, you’ve worked with so many different filmmakers since that first interview.  Edgar Wright, you worked on all those films, including The Running Man, which I absolutely loved. It is a great remake.

SP: I was really proud of that one. I enjoyed it.

WAMG: Watch the original, but watch the new version, the updated version, because it’s so good. It really is. You’ve also worked with David Ayer on Fury and Suicide Squad Fury. So with all these collaborations, your scores are not just background noise. It’s always conveying the characters, the feeling, what they’re thinking. So I wanted to ask you about the scene at the end of Coyote vs Acme, where Will Forte’s character is in the courtroom, it’s just so emotional.

SP: It’s one of the things I love to do more than anything really is kind of hopefully find that level of emotion that makes you kind of lean in and not realise it. That feeling of your stomach sort of lurching or just that wave of emotion. And this film sort of had that the performances were so good. 

And you know, there was something about him doing the speech about the different way of seeing Wile (E. Coyote), from being this hapless kind of character to being someone who’s resilient and actually really brave and never gives up and that’s sort of admirable, you know, and it was a lovely thing to score because it’s quite a beautifully rousing speech, beautifully written.

So it was so nice to sort of just accompany him really and just build as he built and just follow it along and hopefully the combination moves people.

WAMG: It was just a lovely part of the movie and the score was absolutely perfect for that scene.

SP: The whole thing, to work on a Looney Tunes film that a lot of people keep saying they found it emotional, that’s new, I think, for that world. So that’s a great thing.

WAMG: So switching gears to Sir David Attenborough. You won the Primetime Emmy for Life on the Planet. You’re nominated again for The Ocean with David Attenborough. Both are just magnificent. And he just turned 100. He’s like the oldest Emmy nominee.

What was it like working with him? 

SP: It’s been just a massive honour really to work with him at all. I’ve been working with him sort of since about 2014. We did a show called “The Hunt” for the BBC and all the people around him are amazing storytellers and the camera work is incredible. David has got to this point in his life, he’s making different sorts of films and certainly something like the Ocean film. It’s an amazing sort of message piece, really. And it was very different from anything we’d done before. It wasn’t sort of pure natural history. It was a thing designed to make a difference and to alert people to the damage that’s being done in the ocean and kind of suggest that this is unsustainable and it’s having terrible effects on the whole planet. 

And it’s also not making money. It is just ridiculous. I didn’t know about any of that. And it takes someone like Sir David to stand and stare at the camera and say that. We wanted the score for that to be as emotional as he was really, and to support every bit of his message. It starts off showing the wonder of the oceans, but then it shows you just how terrible it is. And it goes really dark, the score in that place, but it sends you away with a lot of optimism. And we wanted it to feel different. So that one is a very choral score. That’s a lot of voices all overlapping and kind of the voice of the ocean was what was running through my head when I was working on it. Everything is very fluid and all the voices overlap and it kind of moves in waves. And within that, I think you could find a lot of emotion in different ways. It was a very lovely thing to work on. We’re all super proud of that one.

WAMG: How do you go from all these various genres and still keep it fresh after all these years?

SP: I think you just keep putting yourself in positions where you don’t know what you’re doing. Now, that’s my key. Just continually look for things that you haven’t done before, that you want to do in a different way. And just sort of keep trying to find the heart of a film. I like nothing more than trying to make a score that sounds like it couldn’t belong to any other film. That’s my obsession with this thing. And just try and make something that feels like it’s utterly bespoke to those characters and the way it’s been filmed, every aspect of it. So it just feels like one thing. And these lovely moments, if you do get it right every now and then, it all becomes more than the sum of its parts.

WAMG: Your score for Gravity was so unusual, as if it wasn’t made for that film, but it was.

SP: I love making things. I enjoy trying to find a new sound that feels particular. I remember when we did Fury, a lot of the percussion in that film arc the tank. we got bits of the tank delivered to a studio and we hit it and we scraped it and we did all these things and that became, so you can’t separate the film from the music, and that’s something I try and do as much as possible, really, just to try and make things that feel. you know, super unique. 

With the Coyote vs Acme film, there are sounds in there that were drawn from the original sounds from the Looney Tunes effects library from the cartoons, like little clicking noises that they would have for people running, that they’re part of my rhythm tracks. I spent ages trying to do slide guitars that sounded like the Bugs Bunny. You just try and make it feel like it’s right for that film.

WAMG: I have one final question. In 2013, during the World’s End interview, my last question was, what advice would you give the young musicians considering a career as a film composer? You said, “there are always jobs that need to be done. And if you’re a musically minded person and you’re nice to have around, I think people appreciate that. And there are opportunities out there. It can appear very daunting getting into the industry at times, but I think if you’ve got the right attitude, and you’re keen to get involved, ultimately you love to do it. And there are definitely openings for people.”

What do you think about that over a decade later?

SP: If anything, I think it’s even more true. I think it’s probably even harder to get into this thing now than it used to be. There’s so many people, I think everyone’s got a studio, everyone’s got a computer, you can make scores with anything, so it can be daunting to get anyone to hear anything. To me, the way forward is to meet people and to be useful to people. There’s nothing better than when someone’s enthusiastic and wants to learn every aspect of this. I look back on my early days and I’m so grateful that I’d learned every job in film music because I had a go at all of it at some point, and helped people do it. And so when you do get to write your own, you kind of have an understanding of that and that helps. That means you’re not wasting time, you learn those things. You can just sort of focus on the job at hand. So I think people, I get a lot of letters from people who just want to write. And I’m always trying to say, oh, you should do everything. You know, the writing will come. If you’re going to write, you’re going to write anyway. But you know, learn all these other things. There’s loads of ways to, you know, to influence this stuff and to, you know, enjoy working in film music.

WAMG: Do you have anything coming up that we can look forward to?

SP: There’s a couple of things that are finished and ready to go, there’s a film called The Way of the Warrior Kid, which is coming out of Apple, I believe, in November. And then returning to the Natural History world, there’s a limited series that I did for Netflix earlier this year about the Arctic, which is a very beautiful show and really deals with how things are changing in the Arctic and how it’s affecting the people who live there and all the nature around them.

Composer Christopher Lennertz Talks The Changing Musical Motifs During Five Seasons Of Prime Video’s Hit Series THE BOYS And The Upcoming VOUGHT RISING

Prime Video’s global hit series, THE BOYS, concluded its final and fifth season with an explosive final chapter. Season Five of the multi-Emmy Award-winning series premiered on April 8, culminating in the unforgettable series finale on May 20.

In the final season, it’s Homelander’s world, completely subject to his erratic, egomaniacal whims. Hughie, Mother’s Milk, and Frenchie are imprisoned in a “Freedom Camp.” Annie struggles to mount a resistance against the overwhelming Supe force. Kimiko is nowhere to be found. But when Butcher reappears, ready and willing to use a virus that will wipe all Supes off the map, he sets in motion a chain of events that will forever change the world and everyone in it.  It’s the climax, people. Big stuff’s gonna happen.

THE BOYS reunites composer Christopher Lennertz with the series’ creator Eric Kripke, creator and producer of CW’s Supernatural, which Lennertz scored since the show’s inception in 2005, and for which he received an Emmy nomination. The duo also worked together on the NBC series Revolution.

The Emmy-winning composer and I have been having conversations about his various projects since 2014, starting with THINK LIKE A MAN, the TV show “Galavant” and in 2015 with THE WEDDING RINGER, RIDE ALONG 2 and the TV show “Marvel’s Agent Carter” and in 2019 when THE BOYS first came on the scene.

Prior to the airing of THE BOYS series finale, Lennertz and I discussed what’s been happening since we last spoke, the Emmy win, working in the Vought Cinematic Universe (VCU) world and his latest movie Tim Story’s latest comedy 72 HOURS (2026).

SPOILERS AHEAD – – – SPOILERS AHEAD

Antony Starr (Homelander)

We Are Movie Geeks: We’ve spoken 3 times previously. One time you’re doing Agent Carter, and then you’re composing for Gallivant, and then you’re doing movies with Tim Story, and THE BOYS during this whole time.

I gotta say. I watched last night’s episode of THE BOYS. How cool was it that you got that brilliant shout-out in the episode?

Christopher Lennertz: That was awesome. I didn’t even know they were doing it until we first spotted the episode. I knew it last night, but when we first started working on the music, they didn’t tell me, and it came up, I was like, oh my god, so great, so fun. And to have Daveed Diggs say it was so fun and great.

We Are Movie Geeks: I know, right? And I had the closed captioning on, and there it is! And secondly, congratulations on that Emmy win last year for  “Let’s Put the Christ Back in Christmas.”

Christopher Lennertz: Thank you. It was amazing. It was so fun and silly. It really was.

We Are Movie Geeks: It was great, and then they posted it on YouTube, which was even better. Did you immerse yourself in going to ice capade shows to really get a vibe going?

Christopher Lennertz: I didn’t go to them, but I watched a ton of them online, and yeah, I really did a lot of homework on that one. It was very funny to try to make it as legit, sort of like, Disney on Ice as we possibly could.

We Are Movie Geeks: That was great, that was great. So once again, you and Eric Kripke, you’re doing another series to the bitter end, and it’s been, like, what, 30 years?

Christopher Lennertz: More than 30 years. We met in 1995, no, 1992, and I think we did his first student film, that we did together, was in 1993, so 33 years since we started working together. Isn’t that insane?

We Are Movie Geeks: That’s amazing. I love that, because I was watching Deadline’s, Sight and Sounds, and you were talking about that, and it has been 30 years. 

Christopher Lennertz: We both had hair back then.

Jack Quaid (Hughie Campbell), Karl Urban (Billy Butcher)

We Are Movie Geeks: How crazy has it been working on THE BOYS from when it first started, and when you and I were first talking about it to where it is now, because when we were talking about Season 1, you were talking about wanting to use lots of drums, and metal, and trash and stuff, and broken symbols, and all this noise and feedback. So, where you started and where it is now, did you change anything?

Christopher Lennertz: I don’t think we changed anything, I think we added a lot of stuff, I think, and especially this last season, because, you know, I think you’ll still hear a lot of the broken instruments, and you’ll hear the trash, and you’ll hear feedback and things like that, especially to represent Butcher and our boys, our heroes. Homelander’s theme on this violin was gonna be such a big part of the show, and really represent his descent into just mania, and just insanity, and to have his, like, the inside of his brain be represented by that. But we also didn’t know we were gonna end up doing this thing where we, every year, we do, you know, a couple of original songs that are really fun satire and parody, and I was gonna get to work with you know, half the cast, to sing them, and to be able to write songs for the cast to sing. That was something that didn’t start until Season 2, and has been such an amazing surprise.

We Are Movie Geeks: I love how, over the five seasons, there’s been a lot more use of orchestra, and I think one of my favorites of this season, also, is, the song, “Faster”. Did that come from another season?

Christopher Lennertz: Yeah, so there was the rap version of Faster that Jesse actually did in Season 2, so that when we knew that A-Train was gonna die, Eric sent me a note, and we’re like, oh, we have to do a funeral gospel version of Faster. So yeah, it was really fun to be able to do that and take it in a very different direction.

We Are Movie Geeks: I’m hearing a lot of orchestra, but there’s a lot more of those non-conventional choices of instruments. Did you and co-composer, Matt Bowen, make a conscious decision? Was that something that Eric said he wanted? It works really well.

Christopher Lennertz: Yeah, thank you! I think it really was, you know, I think the show sort of told us what to do, and one of the things that we were surprised about, and we knew that things were gonna be big, because it was the last season, it was season 5, but what we really weren’t prepared for was how emotional a lot of it was gonna be. I knew that we’d probably see a lot of death, but, you know, but starting in episode 1 this year, we lost A-Train, and then we lost Firecracker, and Black Noir, and, every time you start to realize, oh my god, there’s a lot of emotion here, you know, and obviously last night, she died.

So to be able to go through that, you kind of need the orchestra to come in and tug on your heartstrings. The orchestra can do something with both emotion and scale to say we’re approaching the end, and you’re saying goodbye to characters you love, and this is getting big. You know, and that’s something that, you know, it’s harder to do that with a guitar or a bass. It’s easier to do that with, you know, the grandeur of an orchestra, and really do that kind of thing. As we got into this season, Matt and I really knew that, you know, we were going to do more orchestra than we normally do. But really, especially in the last two or three episodes, it’s become sort of much more orchestral than it ever was before. And I think it’s because the show warrants it, the story warrants it.

Kimiko Miyashiro (Karen Fukuhara), Frenchie (Tomer Capone)

We Are Movie Geeks: it’s great. It’s impactful. I mean, I’m watching Frenchie Die last night, and I was like, oh no, oh no, and here comes the orchestra, and the strings, and everything else. It was really sad. It was, like, the worst part of all five seasons.

The first season, the first few seasons, you were the sole composer, and now you’re working alongside your co-composer, Matt Bowen. I mean, that cue for the last diabolical dance, which I was listening to yesterday, is perfect.

Christopher Lennertz: Thank you.

We Are Movie Geeks: What is that like?

Christopher Lennertz: Matt and I had been working on other things together. He’s worked on some movies with me, and he comes from the world of being a real record producer. He’s really great at playing lots of instruments, but also, you know, comes from more of a rock background, whereas I have more of an orchestral specialty. And so he was involved from the beginning, producing a lot of the rock stuff.and a lot of the punk vibe of the show. He was starting to come up with so many great things, and became so integral to the show that, when they greenlit Gen V, and we started working on Gen V, and we knew that it was gonna go into a situation where we were gonna just be doing episode after episode after episode, going from one show to the next.

And then now, obviously, going to Vought Rising coming up, we’re gonna do the same,  we talked to Kripke, and I said, look, Matt’s been on this, you know, sort of from the beginning, and he’s really started writing with me on a lot of things and great music, so, so can we just, you know, bring him in on the team and have him make sure that we have, you know, because we’re doing so many shows, back-to-back. I was like, oh, this way we’ll be able to make sure that we, you know, that we’re here for whatever you need, and also, he’s brilliant, and he’s really good at some of the things that I’m not great at. He plays cello, and he plays, you know, he plays, you know, violin, and I don’t play violin at all, so, it’s really helpful to have both of us involved, and we’ve sort of gotten into the world of the VCU and the show with Eric that I think we just all get what it’s supposed to sound like, and we’re all sort of one big family now, which is really great.

We Are Movie Geeks: I love that it’s called the VCU now. I love that. When I was watching that interview on Deadline on YouTube, the sound and screen, it’s a lot of fun. It was really fun watching the two of you, you know, talk about the show and the music.

We Are Movie Geeks: Tell me about, then, the process of composing for not only THE BOYS, but GenV, which was its own thing, and now you’ve got VOUGHT RISING.

Christopher Lennertz: You know, they’re all in the same world, and so they needed to relate somewhat. It was a much younger cast in Gen V, they were in college, there was definitely a stronger female lead presence, which were really amazing, like Marie, and we knew that they needed more of that sound, and so we had more vocals involved, and it definitely had more electronics involved than the boys would have had. But it definitely also lived in the same world. There was, you know, dissonance and feedback and tension. And then it’s gonna be interesting to see what we do with Vought Rising, because we do have themes that carry over now, because we’ve got Soldier Boy, we’ve got Stormfront.

You know, so there are themes, and we actually introduced a new theme this season for Bombsite. Once we go back, you’ll hear the Bombsite theme as well, which is really cool. There is some cross-pollinization of themes, but also, it takes place in the 50s, we’re just starting it, so I’m not exactly sure how much of that period music sound will be in there. My guess is it’s still gonna live very much in the world of boys-related stuff, and it’s gonna have the same kind of shock and blood and violence and gore and stuff that THE BOYS has, I’m sure. So I’m sure there’ll be dissonance and there’ll be tension, like there always is, but I’d like to think there’s gonna also be an expansion into the 50s of that kind of thing to, you know, to hopefully, you know, give it its own voice, but yet feel like it belongs in the whole universe.

We Are Movie Geeks: What can fans of the boys and Gen V expect from VOUGHT RISING? It sounds like there’s going to be that kind of Flavor of the 50s, but not too far removed from what people have been listening to the last five seasons.

Christopher Lennertz: We haven’t finished any episodes yet, so I’m not sure how it’ll end up, but I do think when it comes to things that are in the same world, fans have an expectation that they want to feel like it belongs, and whether that’s like, James Bond, you want to hear that guitar, you want to hear the brass, and so I think with anything, when you’ve got a world that you’ve created that people love, you want to make sure you give the fans what they want, but also in a new way, and that’s probably what I think we’ll end up doing.

We Are Movie Geeks: Getting a little way from THE BOYS. You’re also working with Tim Story again.

Christopher Lennertz: I am, we actually just finished a little bit ago, we finished 72 Hours, which is a Netflix movie.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81715790

We Are Movie Geeks: What is this, your 9th, 10th collaboration with him?

Christopher Lennertz: That was my 9th movie with Tim. It’s awesome and he’s just the most lovely human. Both he and Eric are my two favorite, long-time collaborators, and, they love making really fun entertainment that people can get lost in. And Tim just knows how to make a fun, funny movie, and especially when he and Kevin get together, it’s just always gonna be fun. This one’s cool, because it’s got a bunch of the young, really great new Saturday Night Live stars in it, Marcelo and everybody else, so it’s gonna be really cool, sort of the next wave of big-time comic actors are in this movie, which is great.

We Are Movie Geeks: You and I, we spoke about Think Like a Man 2, we also talked about Ride Along, and the trailer for 72 hours, it’s actually really funny. I think it’s gonna be a lot of fun.

Christopher Lennertz: It comes out in July, so I hope everybody loves it.

We Are Movie Geeks: After that, what do you have on the horizon?

Christopher Lennertz: Nothing I could talk about specifically, necessarily, but, you know, I have been, because of THE BOYS’ songs and everything else, like, I’ve really gotten caught by the bug of songwriting, and especially musical theater songwriting, so I am working on a show for Broadway, which I can’t tell specifically about, but it’s really great. 

I did the Rogers musical for Disneyland when it was out a couple years ago. I did all the new songs for that, and then writing songs for THE BOYS and having superheroes sing theatrical songs, it might be a world that I would like to be pigeonholed in.  If I can be the superhero slash sci-fi Broadway songwriter, I would be happy to be that person. I’ve got something up my sleeve, which is fun, and the fact that we got to do a song with Daveed Diggs from Hamilton this season was a dream come true for me. Hamilton’s one of my absolute favorite shows, and Daveed is a legend. And to be able to write it with him was unbelievably fun. He’s brilliant, and as cool as you could imagine. And yeah, to be able to write that, and singing about Homelander being God is so ridiculous, and then having, like, angels twerking, and it’s so ridiculous.

We Are Movie Geeks: That was a crazy.

Christopher Lennertz: Yeah, but it’s so Kripke. After the Emmy last year, everyone knows that I love writing songs, and they’re more open to me writing more songs within the actual movies and the shows. I’d love to write something for one of Tim’s movies, I’d love to write a song for that, and, who knows, there just might be a song in Vought Rising, too, or two, maybe. So we’ll have to see and wait and see.

We Are Movie Geeks: I’ve been re-watching Supernatural, showing my husband, who didn’t see it on its initial run. I watched it from the start when it first began, so this is my third time watching it. 

Christopher Lennertz: Good, right?

We Are Movie Geeks: Oh my gosh. That show, just perfect, still just amazing. And to have them show up in THE BOYS!

Misha Collins (Castiel), Antony Starr (Homelander), Jensen Ackles (Soldier Boy), Jared Padalecki (Mister Marathon)

Jared Padalecki as Sam Winchester, Jensen Ackles as Dean Winchester, and Misha Collins as Castiel on Supernatural – Credit: Jack Rowand/The CW/Everett Collection 

We Are Movie Geeks: So lastly, what can fans expect from the finale, from THE BOYS?

Christopher Lennertz: There’s a lot of orchestra in it, there’s a lot longer, big cues, which was really fun to write. Plus a huge buildup at one point in the show, and, normally queues on THE BOYS are a minute to two, three minutes long, and there was a queue that’s 9 minutes long. In the finale, there’s big, dramatic music that usually means that really important stuff is happening, so I will say that I think people are gonna be like. It doesn’t pull any punches, we’ll put it that way. I hope people like it. And I think, It’s got stuff that’s gonna move people, but it’s also got stuff that might put people’s jaws on the ground. I think they’ll be surprised.

We Are Movie Geeks: Chris, thank you again. Thank you, for sitting down and having this conversation.

Christopher Lennertz: You too. Thanks, Michelle, appreciate it.

Antony Starr (Homelander)

WAMG Checks In With Composer Max Aruj And His Score For Netflix’s MAN ON FIRE

The score for the upcoming Netflix series Man on Fire, composed by Max Aruj, blends propulsive action with a deeply emotional core. It was developed over a six-month process with a mandate to avoid the original film’s musical legacy. Central themes include “Creasy Investigation,” a driving baritone guitar–led motif, and “Man on Fire,” a sweeping piece tied to the series’ most powerful moments.

Based on A.J. Quinnell’s book series, Man on Fire tells the story of John Creasy. Once a high functioning and skilled Special Forces Mercenary, known for surviving even the most desolate of situations, Creasy is now plagued with intense PTSD. Determined to overcome his personal demons, he sets out on a path to redemption. But, before he can adjust to this new life, he finds himself back in the fire, fighting harder than ever.

In addition to serving as composer on Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning, and the video game Screamer, Max contributed additional music to Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One, Top Gun: Maverick, Mission: Impossible – Fallout and the series The Crown. When we last spoke with the Los Angeles–based composer in June 2021, Aruj was working on CRAWL and ICE ROAD. https://www.wearemoviegeeks.com/2021/06/interview-with-max-aruj-composer-of-ice-road-lansky-and-crawl/

Man on Fire will stream on Netflix on April 30.

The series stars Yahya Abdul-Mateen II in the lead role of Creasy, alongside Billie Boullet, Alice Braga, Scoot McNairy, Bobby Cannavale, and Paul Ben-Victor. Director Steven Caple Jr. directs the first two episodes of the series’ seven-episode season.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81645170

WAMG:  It’s good to talk to you again. It’s been since, like, 2021.

MA: I know, a long time. 

WAMG: The new trailer for this show, have you seen it?

MA: Wait a second, is there a new trailer?

WAMG: There’s a new trailer, it’s great! Have you seen the series yet?

MA: They’re wrapped. Oh, yeah. Because by the time I came on, they were already picture-locked, so I just got to score the whole thing straight up, really smooth. really streamlined, so it worked out great.

WAMG: I gotta tell you, congratulations on all your success in the recent years. I mean, when we last spoke, we were talking about Crawl, we were talking about Ice Road, and then I see you as composer on Mission Impossible, Top Gun, another Mission Impossible! 

MA: And I see right next to you The Right Stuff poster, and that is a movie that we discussed when doing Mission, because McQ (Christopher McQuarrie) loves that movie, and loves that score.

WAMG: So let’s talk about Man on Fire. It’s really great! The score is terrific. Who did the vocals? How did you come about that? Because the vocals on that one cue are fantastic.

MA: Thank you for pointing that one out. This gentleman named Maroka Paris, who is a singer from Portugal, so, what I love about this whole process is that at the beginning, I worked with the Netflix team, and they said, let us know how we can help, what can we do, And we just kind of talked, and we said, what cool musicians could we work with? The story’s very intimate. The story’s very personal, and also, you know, there’s these big moments of action where the score explodes. And Sam and Ashley brought up a bunch of musicians, and Morocco was one of these singers that has this super unique tone and a really special approach to singing.

I listened to his music, and I thought, whoa, we have got to get that guy. And we reached out and spoke to him, and thank goodness he was available and interested. And then we spoke, sent in the tracks, and then we did a remote session with him, where we sent them the tracks, and we had video, and we got an audio feed, and we got to watch him sing. And it was one of my favorite moments, I think as a professional, because I heard his voice and I thought, whoa this is going to be so impactful and it was such a win for the whole team.

WAMG: I’m listening and all of a sudden, you hear these amazing vocals come in. Plus, there’s a lot of great percussion from another country.

MA: That’s right. So since they’re in Brazil in the show, we’ve really got to dig into those colors. So, for example, we used some samba influences, maracatu influences, which is African-influenced drumming. Ashea, which is kind of a combination of samba, reggae, and pop. And then, in terms of instrumentation, we got to use Kashishi seeds, timbales, cajon, Congas, frame drum…Hondero, and these weren’t necessarily all invented in Brazil, those instruments, but they’re heavily used in Brazilian music. So, it really started to feel special and unique to that location.

And then we also got to work with another wonderful musician whose name is Ayuri Oliveira. And he’s also in Portugal and plays some incredible Brazilian percussion, and when you get a good musician, in music, it becomes three-dimensional, because all of a sudden, these bills are popping, And these grooves are just combining in ways that make it feel like a living piece of music. So, I’m so glad you enjoyed that, and the percussion is something that, again, from the very beginning, working with the team was such a win.

WAMG: There’s so many emotional parts to your score… some powerful stuff. I was wondering, you had already said everything was locked in? By the time you went to score the film, had you seen some of the rough cuts, or was it completely done when you started scoring?

MA: I started basically August 1st of last year, and I worked until the end of January. So, I think everything was picture-locked, so when I started, I wrote some suites, and then they said, okay, we like these, but we’d love to see more. Then I scored the whole of episode 1 all in one go and then presented it to them, and in general, every concept worked. Because we have them named one way for 6 months, and then we change them at the last minute.

WAMG: When I was listening to it, I found my favorites were the real emotional, very melodic tracks, “My name is John Creasy” and then “She needs you…“

MA: With “My Name Is John Creasy”, that kind of descending melodic line we actually pitched for the titles as well. That was in the running, and the director said, I love it. But they wanted something a little more punchy for the titles, and I’m glad it landed where it did.

I’m so happy that everything went according to plan, because creating these variations from that piece I thought would work was well received, and it worked so well with picture, and just kind of gives just the right hug to the music that it needs to feel that emotion.

WAMG: So, it sounds like everybody was really receptive to what you brought to the table, what you brought to the series. Which came first, them saying, here it is, here’s what we want, or you, here’s my music, here’s what I have to offer.

MA: I watched it, and we had some initial discussions, and they said, we want you to come in with a vision. And at first, I was like, whoa, okay.  I asked some questions where I was thinking, do you want it to be like this or like this? They responded and said, we want you to come in with your own ideas.

They gave me their vote of confidence, which really is the best way to start a project, because you just feel so supported, and then I did, and it was so fun and exciting. Episodes 1 and 2, we had a lot of back and forth. kind of working out a few of these creases, Uh, no pun intended.

And just making sure that all these moments were honored. But in general, the stuff for Poe, the stuff for Creasy worked really well off the bat, so I’m so glad.

WAMG: In these last few years, you’ve been working on Top Gun, you’ve been working on Mission Impossible but every time I’ve listened to one of your scores, they all sound so different. How do you avoid repeating when you’re trying to get that distinct, unique music palette for a new project? How do you go from not sounding like the Top Gun theme, or how do you go from not sounding like the Mission Impossible to this, because it doesn’t sound like anything you’ve ever done, quite frankly.

MA: Thank you. That’s a great question, and I think that question is starting to apply even more as I’m doing more, because now, I’m booking jobs where people will say, we love what you did in this thriller. We’ve also got a thriller. They don’t say, can you do the same thing?

But as I’m working on it, I might do a piece, and I think, you know what? Did I not kind of do this concept already? How can I enhance it? How can I reinvent it? And it’s hard. And people like Lorne Balfe are the master at when they start a new project, they have to think of new ideas, and think about how much he’s done, and always thinking, okay, how can I approach this with a new lens and a new perspective?

I think the challenge of it is that when you book a project, you’ve got to deliver quickly. So that means you have to write original material very quickly, and then the next part is, it needs to sound original sonically with either new instruments or new sounds that no one’s ever heard before, so you really have a lot to do super quickly. And in this case, on Man on Fire, I was thrilled that both elements of those were received well. I was always thinking throughout the project, it’s going so smoothly, like, when’s the other shoe gonna drop? And then it never did!

WAMG: It’s a great score! There are certain scores that can stand entirely on their own, outside the context of the movie like Star Wars. There’s certain iconic movie albums that you could listen to outside of the movie. There doesn’t even have to be a film yours is one of those scores. This is a great score just to listen to. Are you, as a composer now, writing for the visuals, or are you writing so the music stands by itself?

MA: That’s the goal, is that someone can listen to it and be moved, and have no clue about what the series is. They should hear notes, and they should feel a sense of loss and longing. And a rousing sense of heroism, or trying to find some heroism within yourself. And if the audience or listener can feel that, then that’s the goal, you’ve won, and especially with a well-written series, every episode has been crafted and sculpted. So, if you write a good piece of music, it will mimic a good character arc. It just naturally will happen, and so if you write a good theme and melody, if you put that up against episode 7 in the climactic moment, it needs to work, because if it works there, then you work backwards and backwards. And it will just take on a life of its own, even without picture, so it takes practice to do that. I feel like only just understanding how to do that, because I don’t think that it’s automatic being able to do that at all.

WAMG: When do you know that a scene doesn’t need music? Is it difficult to leave a scene silent as a composer?

MA: Let’s just put ourselves 10 years ago when the producer and director are coming into your studio for every meeting and you will watch a reel, so let’s just say 20 minutes and you will craft that stuff together, and then you will come upon a scene where you’ll talk to each other, and you’ll say, I don’t think this needs music here, because we just had such a moving cue before, and then we go right into an action scene after. So, this 2-minute dialogue scene, let’s do it without music. And then you will have remembered and decided together as a team that that works. I think when everyone is remote, and everyone is off on their own, It’s just more natural when you’re sitting by yourself to think, Should this have music here? And the answer is, it could. but you know, the scene is well written, it doesn’t need it, we know where the characters have come from, we see where they’re going.

So a lot of the time, I would score more scenes than I needed to, and then on the dub stage, at the very last second, we’d say, you know what, we don’t need this here. And the post supervisor, Paul Goldman (co-producer) was brilliant in saying, we don’t need this here, and he would be cutting out music along with the whole team, and I thought, this is what we want, because we don’t need to over-score all these intimate scenes. If it works without it, that’s what we’ve got to do.

WAMG: The last time we spoke, you were composing the score for the video game, Wrath of the Druids, and now you’ve done the score for The Screamer, which got great reviews. A lot of composers go back and forth. For instance the Game Awards held in December have become huge now. They have 3 Music categories (outstanding original scores, licensed soundtracks, and original songs in gaming), and the composers getting nominated are big names (Bear McCreary, Lorne Balfe). Even the Grammy Awards – The Academy now hosts a dedicated Best Score Soundtrack for Video Games and Other Interactive Media category. Do you find that you’re still approaching that just the way you would any score for any projects?

MA: I think, as I’m getting better and better when I was scoring those cut scenes, because the length of a scene or of a piece, or a game really matters, so I started to learn very quickly that almost every cutscene had three parts to it. There was a beginning, middle, and end. So as soon as I understood that, I tried to boil the scene down into these really simple parts, so that I could maximize the effect of the music, just knowing that we’re going to bring the audience in, then there’s the body of the scene, and then in the last part of the scene, there was some climax. or some conflict that would yet be resolved, or that is resolved. So I think once I understood these scenes, I was just flying, and I knew how to approach each one of them.

WAMG: Your YouTube page, especially for people who love film scores and want to be composers, is great to watch. Before, you got a score, you bought the record album, and that’s all you got out of it. What advice do you have to people who might want to become composers? https://www.youtube.com/@maxaruj3831 

I think practice is always the number one thing. You know, when you’re practicing an instrument like piano, you can practice 12 hours a day. With brass, you can’t practice that much, but with composition, one should see it like an instrument, so you should be practicing and writing pieces and setting goals for yourself. 7 days a week. When you’re starting out, there’s plenty of things you need to do, but what I love is that now, once I’ve gotten the wheel going and I’ve made some amazing connections and worked on some amazing projects. Now I’m almost back to the basics of it, it’s all about the writing.

I think for any aspiring composer, what I can say is that it really is you need to do networking, but let’s say you get the project, then you have to be able to write all these different genres and teach yourself other genres and new genres you may have never even heard of. So, it’s just about practice.

WAMG: What do you have coming up?

MA: First of all, we do have Man on Fire videos that are being made right now, so, those will be coming out in a couple weeks and we worked with an amazing editor named Dallas Crane, who spearheaded this whole process, so I’m really thankful for him.

And next, I’m actually working on a thriller right now which is kind of wild and exciting. They have a deadline coming up. I’m doing a first pass, but not gonna rush, because we’re going to revisit it after this deadline.

And I’m also working on a video game. It’s a VR game, actually. And as I was saying, I had to learn an even new genre for this project. It’s so humbling starting a new project and you’re thinking, oh my god, I thought this music was really easy to make, but it’s not. That keeps you engaged and challenged and excited, so I’m thankful for it.

WAMG: At CinemaCon, Paramount Pictures talked about the next Top Gun movie, so I hope to see you as composer again. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/top-gun-3-script-underway-tom-cruise-1236566290/ 

https://deadline.com/2026/04/top-gun-3-cinemacon-1236863201

Max, it was a pleasure, once again, to speak with you. I love the score and I think people will really like the music. I think people who love the movie will also like the series.

MA: Thank you.

HEART EYES Composer Jay Wadley Discusses His Score For The Slasher Rom-Com Movie

SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA – FEBRUARY 04: Josh Ruben and Jay Wadley attend a special Beyond Fest screening of Screen Gems and Spyglass Media Group’s HEART EYES at Aero Theatre on February 04, 2025 in Santa Monica, California. (Photo by Eric Charbonneau/Sony Pictures via Getty Images)

For the past several years, the “Heart Eyes Killer” has wreaked havoc on Valentine’s Day by stalking and murdering romantic couples. This Valentine’s Day, no couple is safe…

Hitting theaters this February is the Valentine’s Day horror-comedy HEART EYES from director Josh Ruben.

Screen Gems and Spyglass Media Group present a Divide/Conquer production, Heart Eyes. Starring Olivia Holt, Mason Gooding, Gigi Zumbado, Michaela Watkins, with Devon Sawa and Jordana Brewster. Produced by Christopher Landon, Greg Gilreath, and Adam Hendricks. Written by Phillip Murphy and Christopher Landon & Michael Kennedy. 

The director of photography is Stephen Murphy, BSC, ISC. The production designer is Rob Bavin. The film is edited by Brett W. Bachman, ACE. The costume designer is Jaindra Watson. Casting by Mary Vernieu, CSA, and Bret Howe, CSA.

They say that whether you’re trying to make an audience care about whether a couple gets together or survives a slasher comes down to the same thing: get them invested in the characters. “We didn’t want to wink at it—’scream cute,’” says Ruben. “We wanted to play terror for real—to be vulnerable and root for these characters.”

Heart Eyes centers on a mysterious serial killer whose mission is to take out couples—the more obnoxiously in love, the better. “Heart Eyes is a brutal and nasty killer, a cunning slasher,” says Ruben. “The killer can’t stand couples. What’s Heart Eyes’s MO? Repulsed by couples? Hates PDA? An anti-Valentine’s Day vigilante? 

All of this effectively comes through the screen with a pulse racing score by Jay Wadley. In her review, WAMG’s Cate Marquis says, “Director Ruben also adds a little fun with the music choices, one of the best parts of the movie, along with the fine horror effects.”

Wadley’s various tracks give audiences a fun return to the horror movies we all love – SCREAM, NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET, FRIDAY THE 13TH – with his musical jump scare cues.

In a recent interview with Wadley prior to the opening of the film, the composer and I discussed how he crafted a genre-defying score for the movie by blending lush rom-com melodies, spine-tingling horror motifs, and comedic beats, the score reflects the film’s unique tone.

Just in time for Valentine’s Day, the soundtrack will be released Friday, February 14th.

When asked about his inspirations for composing this musical character of HEART EYES, he said he drew from the music of Bernard Herrmann, Christopher Young, and Krzysztof Penderecki. Jay created a musical palette that weaves classic romance, modern horror, and experimental textures into an unforgettable auditory experience.

At the heart of the score lies a haunting three-note motif for the Heart Eyes Killer, a flexible theme that shifts from eerie harp whispers to bombastic brass climaxes, evolving with the character’s menace. The score also features a tender love theme for the protagonists, Ali and Jay, that struggles to find space amidst the chaos—mirroring their romantic journey.

From suspenseful aleatoric string textures to lush orchestral swells, the music keeps audiences on edge while delivering moments of beauty and emotional release. Highlights include the climactic drive-in theater scene, where the love theme finally flourishes in its full glory, and the film’s action-packed finale, intricately scored to amplify its thrills.

Wadley’s past work includes the psychological thriller I’m Thinking of Ending Things (Netflix), the historical drama series Franklin (Apple TV+), and the Sundance NEXT Award-winning I Carry You with Me (Sony Pictures Classics). His upcoming score is for the film THE WEDDING BANQUET.


Director Josh Ruben (center), Jordana Brewster as Detective Jeanine and Mason Gooding as Jay on the set of Screen Gems and Spyglass Media Group’s HEART EYES. Photo by: Christopher Moss

WAMG: To start, what was the initial inspiration behind your musical score for Heart Eyes? Did the director, Josh Ruben, provide any specific guidance? How did you balance the slasher movie elements with the romantic comedy tropes?

Jay Wadley: The initial inspiration for the score came from the juxtaposition of two genres that, on the surface, seem completely at odds: slasher and rom-com. Josh Ruben, the director, was incredibly clear about wanting to merge these two tones in a way that felt organic. He pushed me to explore both the humor and the suspense in the story, and to treat both with the same level of sincerity. So, in a way, the score needed to reflect the contrast between something playful and light-hearted, with moments of tension and even dread. It was about creating an atmosphere where you can laugh one minute and feel uneasy the next, which is what makes the film so fun and surprising.

WAMG: That’s a fascinating challenge! How would you describe the overall sound and style of the score? Was it more orchestral, electronic, or something else?

Jay Wadley: The score is definitely a mix of both orchestral and electronic elements. I used lush string arrangements and piano for the rom-com portions—those moments needed warmth and intimacy. But for the slasher side, I incorporated synths and a lot of distorted, unsettling sounds. The use of electronics allowed me to evoke a sense of unease, but still in a way that felt fresh and modern. There’s a lot of tension in the score, but it’s layered with moments of sweetness that reflect the romantic angle of the film. The balance between the two was key.

WAMG: That balance must’ve been tricky to get right. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced while composing the music for this film?

Jay Wadley: The project came together pretty quickly, and we had to be efficient. Beyond that, the challenge was capturing the nuances of the characters and story through music. I had to be very conscious of how the score would highlight the shifting moods—from light-hearted rom-com moments to the darker, more intense slasher scenes. Also, working with Josh and the team to ensure the music complemented the pacing of the story without overshadowing the humor or tension was a delicate balancing act.

WAMG: What was the most rewarding aspect of working on Heart Eyes?

Jay Wadley: Honestly, the most rewarding aspect was seeing the whole thing come together on screen. It’s one thing to create music in a vacuum, but seeing how the score fit with the visuals and the performances was incredibly gratifying. Josh really allowed me to take creative risks, and the film as a whole feels like a true collaboration. It’s a fun ride, and the music feels like it plays a big part in making that happen.

WAMG: Did you use any unique instruments or recording techniques in the score for Heart Eyes?

Jay Wadley: Yes! For some of the more intense, slasher-driven moments, I used unconventional sounds—like prepared piano (where you place objects on the strings) and bowed cymbals. These techniques create eerie textures that added a lot of tension. For the romantic scenes, I stuck to more traditional instrumentation, but with added layers of synths that gave the score a bit of a contemporary edge.

WAMG: That’s really interesting. How did you integrate the music with the film’s visual and narrative elements? Did you use leitmotifs or thematic development?

Jay Wadley: Absolutely. I used motifs for both the romantic and horror elements. The romantic theme is light and playful, often appearing as a melody played on the piano or strings. For the horror, I developed a more jagged, dissonant motif that would emerge at key moments. By weaving these themes in and out, I was able to underscore the shifts in tone without being too overt. The integration was really about setting the emotional foundation for each scene, so the audience could feel the tension before it even fully manifested on screen.

WAMG: Did you compose digitally, with a live orchestra, or a combination of both?

Jay Wadley: I composed most of the score digitally, using a mix of sampled instruments and synths. However, for some of the more intimate moments, I recorded with live musicians, particularly for the string sections. There’s something special about having live instruments that can’t quite be replicated digitally – especially for the romantic moments, where I wanted to capture a sense of warmth and humanity.

Olivia Holt as Ally and Mason Gooding as Jay in Screen Gems and Spyglass Media Group’s HEART EYES. photo by: Christopher Moss

WAMG: How did the film’s story and characters influence your creative process?

Jay Wadley: The film’s story had a huge impact on the music. The characters are quirky and endearing, so I wanted the score to reflect that playfulness, but also the fact that they are in a very dangerous situation. I tried to keep the characters at the forefront of the music, capturing their vulnerabilities and moments of triumph. The music had to reflect their emotional arcs while still supporting the genre-defying nature of the film.

WAMG: Did you personally connect with any of the characters or themes in the film?

Jay Wadley: I think I connected with the themes of love and fear—those two emotions often run parallel in life, and they’re both explored in Heart Eyes. The characters are navigating relationships, but they’re also dealing with this intense, life-threatening situation. It was easy to relate to that kind of emotional rollercoaster, and I think that’s why the score feels so authentic.

WAMG: What was it like collaborating with Josh Ruben and the rest of the filmmaking team?

Jay Wadley: It was fantastic. Josh is a visionary. He had such a clear idea of what he wanted, but he was also very open to ideas and experimentation. The collaboration felt very organic—there was a lot of trust between us, which made it easier for me to push creative boundaries. The whole team was incredibly supportive and passionate, which made the experience so rewarding.

WAMG: How has working on this project impacted your own musical style and approach?

Jay Wadley: It’s definitely expanded my approach to genre blending. The challenge of weaving together two very different tones—comedic and horrific—has made me more comfortable with taking risks and pushing boundaries. I feel like I’m more confident in my ability to shift between moods and create something that feels cohesive, even when the ingredients are wildly different.

WAMG: What do you hope audiences will take away from the music in Heart Eyes?

Jay Wadley: I hope the audience leaves with a sense of excitement and surprise. The music reflects the unexpected nature of the film itself – romance and danger can coexist in a way that’s both funny and unsettling. I want people to remember the emotional highs and lows of the music, and hopefully, it will make them reflect on how these different feelings – love, fear, joy – are all connected in our lives.

WAMG: Thank you so much for sharing your insights with me, Jay! It’s been a pleasure hearing about your creative process.

Jay Wadley: Thank you! It was great to talk about the project. I hope everyone enjoys the film and the music as much as we enjoyed making it.

Composer Dan Deacon of VENOM: THE LAST DANCE Discusses His Score And Meeting Francis Ford Coppola

In it’s third weekend at the number one spot at the box office, director Kelly Marcel’s epic conclusion to VENOM has grossed $394.2 million worldwide.

In VENOM: THE LAST DANCE, Tom Hardy returns as Venom, one of Marvel’s greatest and most complex characters, for the final film in the trilogy. Eddie and Venom are on the run. Hunted by both of their worlds and with the net closing in, the duo are forced into a devastating decision that will bring the curtains down on Venom and Eddie’s last dance. Venom: The Last Dance stars Tom Hardy, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Juno Temple, Rhys Ifans, Peggy Lu, Alanna Ubach and Stephen Graham. The film is directed by Kelly Marcel from a screenplay she wrote, based on a story by Hardy and Marcel. The film is produced by Avi Arad, Matt Tolmach, Amy Pascal, Kelly Marcel, Tom Hardy and Hutch Parker.

VENOM: THE LAST DANCE (ORIGINAL MOTION PICTURE SOUNDTRACK) is by composer Dan Deacon. The album features an original score composed by Deacon for the final film in the Sony Pictures Venom trilogy. Combining dynamic, emotional orchestral movements with bold, action-packed electronic sequences, Deacon’s score is the perfect musical accompaniment to the final chapter of the franchise.

In my recent conversation with Deacon, the composer talked about getting into the world of composing, how taking Eddie and Venom on their final journey was a musical dream come true, plus a surprise meeting with director Francis Ford Coppola.

WAMG: Did you have those usual beginnings like most composers… Did you play in the school orchestra or marching band when you were a kid?

Dan Deacon:  I played trombone in the school band. And it was fun. I wasn’t particularly good or bad at it. But I really got into music with my dad. He and my mom ran like a small mom and pop business; bought a used computer and had this MIDI program on it called MIDI Songs. And I just fell in love with it. I became completely obsessed with writing music.  I started a band. I would write parts for things like the horn section and it was like my absolute obsession. I didn’t like to think about it as anything that I would do other than like a hobby.

I went to college and I was undeclared for two years and I was going to drop out. My friends asked, why would you drop out? You love music, why would you leave the music program? And I said I’m not into music. And it made me think and I got into the composition program and it took off from there. And then I was really into writing Fluxus style chaos music. I was into 20th century minimalism and mostly avant-garde and really loved the more radical performances; like Fluxus pieces.

Not really a thriving market for that, I just thought I would be a poor musician freak. As my studies were focused on quote unquote classical or experimental classical electroacoustic music; I got into writing like fun party music and just as a hobby. I didn’t think anything would come of that. Then a friend said, hey, I’m going to book a tour. Do you want to come on tour? And I thought that would be fun. And completely fell in love with that, made enough money to pay rent on a warehouse place in Baltimore. I thought this could be my job. I could play this like electronic party music. That was it. I was happy to do that. As long as I averaged $70 a show, I could afford to live in this warehouse space. That took off in the underground and I found success there as a recording artist, but I really always wanted to get back into writing for larger ensembles and seemed like the best way to do that, especially if you want to write orchestral music and to try to get into film composing. And I kind of put that out there and I love films and at this point I was doing pretty significant press at the time.

In 2009, I was doing this one interview on NPR about musicians and for my album. And some music has this singular privilege that other art forms don’t really seem to have and the privilege is that it could be this perfected, definitive version of the album where it can record the album to the best of their ability in the cutting-edge state of technology and release it as intended to be interpreted and listened to exactly that way again and again. But then they can perform it live and do it differently and however they want. They can cut parts they want, they can add new parts, they can improvise, they can slow it down if the audience is vibing that way or they can speed it up if the audience is ruckus. But a film is locked, it’s set in stone. And when I was a kid I would watch a movie and I would wish this part would just keep going on forever. Or you go to a play and it’s different every single time. You never know what an Oscar Wilde play was like being staged with Oscar Wilde’s involvement, the same way poetry is read or even classical music… we have no idea what the exact tempo Beethoven was going for. There’s a victory in that, but we know exactly what The Who wanted their albums to sound like. We know exactly what Aphex Twin’s records sound like.

I get an email that I think is a scam from Francis Ford Coppola, and in my mind, it’s like the new Nigerian Prince. I don’t believe it. Two weeks go by and it’s from a different email address and it says, “Dan, it’s Francis.” A couple more emails go back and forth and I think he reaches out to my agent for a meeting and it’s actually a friends contact. So I hit him up and he says I heard you’re on NPR about like a breathing media that music has. I’d love to talk more about it, so I fly out to Napa and we just hang out and be nerds who love the stuff that we like. This is like 2011 or ’12 and we hit it off and a couple of months go by and we’re continuing the conversation and then he offers me to be a co-composer on the film Twist. I’ve never scored a song. And in college, even though I went to school for composition, I didn’t study film composing. I was composing strictly for the stage or strictly for the studio. I don’t know what a cue sheet is. I don’t know what a music editor is. I’m way in over my head and luckily, just a co-composer, so I’m getting cues and I’m chopping them up and making new music out of that; sending over like chronic stuff that’s being set in that is chill. Then I realized this is a different set of muscles. This is a different… The way I think about it is like being a recording artist and being a film composer. Not like siblings, it’s cousins but far removed.

I think, I need to learn how to actually do this, but if I really want to do this, I need to learn how to do it and at this point – my recording arts career is still doing well. I’m really enjoying it. But I know it’s going to take me over a decade to get all right at this and I want to start writing new music and different music and music that’s not just centered in my brain, but in a larger story or larger narrative. I also want to collaborate and get involved with other artists. And that to me is what I was missing in my solo project. I always felt like I was alone in the process, even when I would bring in other people. At the end of the day, I always had this ultimate veto power and for better or for worse, sometimes it would be like I would be arrogant about a choice. And looking back, I definitely like it, like getting ready to get back into it in 2016 and I realized I need to start at the same level that I’m as a film composer. I found the Baltimore film scene and I connected with Theo Anthony who is making his feature documentary RAT FILM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Film 

He’s had a couple of successful shorts. He says, I think I’m going to make this weird experimental documentary. Would you want to write some music for it? And I tell him, Yeah, I’d love to. And it starts growing into a feature and I’m totally down to just explore it. We don’t know anything about anything and we figured let’s just make a list of all the songs to put in it. It’s just this fun period of discovery. That’s how I got into music and that’s how I kind of fell into all my hobbies.

Luckily the film was beautiful and it did really well in the festival circuit. That opened me up to a whole new world of people who weren’t familiar with my recording career or were and I could start with that like small scene that I could grow with as it grew and I could learn how to do it without like the pressure of working with someone who’s massive and incredible as Coppola. 

I liked that. I liked being able to like work with other filmmakers that were equally discovering their craft and as it grew over, I guess that’s eight years ago, my profile started to grow there and I started doing just larger projects, still mostly nonfiction at this point. But then luckily I got on Kelly Marcel’s radar. I scored her series The Changeling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Changeling_(TV_series)

We developed a musical language and vocabulary and had that shorthand. I always thought VENOM was going to be an unreachable thing. I’d never done theatrical, it’s a tentpole superhero movie. It just felt like – no way, so when she asked me to write some demos and let’s see how this goes, it wasn’t lost on me that this was la once in a lifetime opportunity.

WAMG: What was great is your recent Instagram post (instagram.com/dandeacon/) and you had all the Venom comic books collage. And your other post where you are at the premiere, you’re just kind of chilling and you’re kind of like laying down in front of the Venom on the red carpet, which I thought was hilarious. Like most composers you don’t start out to be a film composer. You just fall into it. I was reading how you love comic books and how you really loved Venom – how you would save your money all the time and you would go and buy the comic books.

The attention given to film scores and composers, that’s been a recent thing. People have really started taking notice more than just, this is Star Wars or this is Jaws or this is the music of Titanic. They’ve really started to know the composers and their music. You definitely have a “sound” as with your score for HUSTLE, which had that electronic synthesized atmospheric score, like with VENOM. What and who were some of your inspirations as far as film composers?

DD: That’s a great question. Normally it starts with making a playlist with the director and the editor and what they are listening to. We talk about what the character in the film is, what its roles may be, how it will provide another level of storytelling that isn’t being told visually or through dialogue? And something that I really think resonates with me about Venom and how it’s just augmented, and his physical form. And I kept thinking it would be great to work with really blown out, heavily processed acoustic sounds. Like the whole “Knull suite” is really distorted trombone or really distorted cello. Those are some of the earliest sounds we worked with. Some contemporary legends would be like the Junkie XL scores. I love Mica Levi for Under The Skin, cues like that for the more haunting strings. And then we’d listen to a lot of Penderecki  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krzysztof_Penderecki and Iannis Xenakis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iannis_Xenakis for like the more haptic sort of strip classic core sounds or György Ligeti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Ligeti.

We built up a playlist of references building that shorthand of  – we want the wild strings here or we want the whispers here – and we want more drums here and that’s sort of like how we built the playlist but asking, what are we telling the audience without telling them and how do we do it without holding their hand? How do we help their brain revisit a previous scene? Just getting into the subtext and how can we do that musically? So that the audience can be transported back to earlier in the story without having to remember to go there. They can focus on what’s in front of them at all times and to me, I think of film scoring as like an ingredient in a cake. 

I think that the score is a very important ingredient, but I don’t want anyone to bite into the cake and notice how overwhelming it is. The whole point is that it becomes a cohesive thing that adds seamlessly. I don’t want anyone to come out of the film, whether it’s so bad they noticed it or it doesn’t fit because it’s trying too hard. I would say this worked a lot with Mixolydian modes to find that sound for Knull to really create something that had this center of gravity pulling towards it that was almost atonal.

WAMG: You’re following Ludwig Göransson’s score from VENOM and Marco Beltrami’s score from LET THERE BE CARNAGE. Did you and Kelly talk about incorporating any of their themes or, as this is the third movie and tying everything up, we’re going down a new path. 

DD: It was pretty much the new path. With each film being a different director and different composer; it’s like a fresh palette. Kind of like when the comics change writers and for the illustrators. It takes on a new look and a new feel and a new edge. You’re still working with the same story and there’s still the same back material and canon that you’re working with. Well, it’s got a different look, a different feel, a different vibe.And I never was like, oh, I gotta fill these shoes.  It was like, I need to score this film with this director, with this script and this team.  It was amazing to follow those two absolute legends, but always felt like its own chapter. 

WAMG: I love now that the credits of movies are including a list, the names of the vocals, they’re including the names of the orchestra members. And now that’s a relatively new thing, which I think is just great. They’re finally giving credit to the members of the Symphony, the members of the orchestra. What was your one go-to instrument?

DD: One go-to instrument. I guess it was cello and trombone. We focused a lot on those early on and again, like really distorting them and blowing them out. And I did like the demo process more, working with a cellist and trombone player out here. Um, then I think, you know, if it counts as an instrument, I would say these plugins are cool, particularly the pitch shifter and their distortion. I really use those as more of these timbral modifiers with 100% saturation, 100% completely take sound and bring it to a new place. And again, right now, when Eddie goes from Eddie to Venom, it’s just like a complete gigantic augmentation where the human form is there, but it’s clearly this alien symbiote that’s all encompassing.

WAMG: Scores have just become their own character. You can’t watch JAWS without hearing John Williams score and not think of a shark. You’ve composed the artist installment at the National Aquarium in Baltimore, which is going to debut on the 21st of November and has already sold out. You’re trying to engage guests with musicians and soundscapes and these interactions. Can you tell me about this project? 

DD: It’s a two-hour piece that is basically six 20-minute loops. This loop is feeding off of the last one. The theme is feedback. drawing the parallels between electrical and acoustic feedback and natural feedback like within ecosystems. So it’s used for about 50 musicians that are spread out all throughout the entirety of the aquarium and they’ll be playing based upon what they hear from the musicians around them, what’s being broadcast through the House PA system as well as radio broadcasts which are going to be piping in different players throughout the museum. 

And then the audience is going to have a sound-based element as well, which is– I think it’s going to work. There’s one or two ways we’re going to do it. One way is very, very elegant and smooth, but the most complicated for us. And the other is funky and insane, but will be very easy for us to make any sense. 

But the main thing that we need to consider is animal welfare, because it is still their home – and that’s a major aspect of the piece is making sure that we never break a particular decibel threshold, because if we do, then the eco-cooking goes out of balance, it crumbles, and that’s part of the design as a piece, to making sure that  if we do go over that threshold, that falls apart. So there’s a real role the audience plays because all the sound that they make will also contribute to that. I’m very excited to see how it goes. It’s definitely like an experiment, but I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. I like working with big groups and I love something that has a real risk of not working.

It’s really focusing on the fragility of an ecosystem, the fragility of quickly feedback to swell into some chaos, to the point where you need to rip the power out of the speaker. So playing with that and making sure that we’re always on the cusp of homeostasis.

https://aqua.org/visit/special-events/2024-11-21-voyages-chapter-6?for=2024-11-21

WAMG: What do you have coming up? 

DD: I can’t get into specifics, but I’m working on two films now. I think that’s about as vague as I can get. With a great team and some people I’ve worked with before and some people that are new to me, but that’s. I’m very, very excited about it. That’ll be coming out next year.

And working on, I’ve got a ballet with New York City Ballet that’s premiering with Justin Peck In January. 

WAMG: What is that called? 

it’s currently still untitled. We had a working title, but I just was on the New York City Ballet website today and I just saw it said, New Ballet. Justin might be playing with the titles. 

WAMG: Dan, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us and congratulations on the success of the film. And I really enjoyed your score. 

DD: Thank you. I really appreciate it. 

VENOM: THE LAST DANCE (ORIGINAL MOTION PICTURE SOUNDTRACK) https://venom.lnk.to/thelastdance

TRACKLISTING – 

Knull’s Order

Area 51 to 55

Venom and Eddie At The River

Hanging Out at the Waterfall

Newsflash

Lab Battle

Remember Me

Sky Dive

Desert Walk

Frequent Flyers

Strickland Reprimands Paine

Sneaking Around

What Are You Doing Here

Request Permission

Say When

Phoning Home

Ramping Up

Strickland and Paine

General Bosco Banana Man

Explaining The Backstory

Crashing the Party

Following the Osprey

Safer Underground

Poking Around

Blasting Out

It’s Not Safe Here

Last Try

It’s a Showdown

Composer Logan Nelson Captures Elizabeth Taylor In His Score For ELIZABETH TAYLOR: THE LOST TAPES

The HBO Original documentary ELIZABETH TAYLOR: THE LOST TAPES, directed by award-winning filmmaker Nanette Burstein (“Hillary,” “The Kid Stays in the Picture”), debuted on Saturday, August 3rd on HBO and streaming on MAX. An official selection of the 2024 Tribeca Film Festival, the film had its world premiere at the 2024 Cannes Film Festival. 

ELIZABETH TAYLOR: THE LOST TAPES allows Elizabeth Taylor’s own voice to narrate her story, inviting audiences to rediscover not just a mega star of Hollywood’s Golden Age but a complex woman who navigated lifelong fame, personal identity, and public scrutiny on a global stage from early childhood. Through newly recovered interviews with Taylor and unprecedented access to the movie star’s personal archive, the film reveals the complex inner life and vulnerability of the Hollywood legend while also challenging audiences to recontextualize her achievements and her legacy.

In 1964, at the height of her fame, Elizabeth Taylor sat down with journalist Richard Meryman for a candid, extensive interview. Drawing from 40 hours of the newly unearthed audio interviews and extraordinary access to personal photos, home movies, archival interviews, and news footage, illustrated with clips from the iconic roles that mirror her real-life challenges and triumphs, ELIZABETH TAYLOR: THE LOST TAPES provides the most intimate portrait of the actress to date. Modest, bawdy, charming, honest, at times frustrated, Taylor comes to life as she discusses her film debut in 1943’s “Lassie Come Home,” her struggle to free herself from the limitations of ingénue roles, her benchmark roles in “Giant,” “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof,” and “Butterfield 8,” for which she won her first of two Academy Awards®, and the excesses of shooting the troubled epic 1963 film “Cleopatra.” Taylor also speaks unguardedly about her marriages and children, her close friendships with Rock Hudson, Montgomery Clift, and Roddy McDowall, and her fifth marriage to Richard Burton, with whom she would star in “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?,” winning her second Academy Award®. Peeling back the layers of one of cinema’s most enduring icons, the conversations reveal a woman at odds with her screen image, yearning for respect and agency, while forever under the microscope of scrutinizing press and the public.

ELIZABETH TAYLOR: THE LOST TAPES offers an unprecedented window into the life of a woman who defied the era’s expectations, ultimately found peace within herself, and who cemented her legacy by turning the tables on her own fame by becoming a fierce activist and advocate for the LGBTQ community.

Alongside Elizabeth Taylor, the documentary features the voices of actors Roddy McDowall, Debbie Reynolds, Richard Burton, George Hamilton, producer Sam Marx, agents Marion Rosenberg and John Heyman, longtime assistant and co-Trustee Tim Mendelson, and friends Liz Smith and Doris Brynner.

We recently had an in-depth conversation with score composer, Logan Nelson. His orchestral composition beautifully captures the spirit of Elizabeth Taylor. By blending elements of classic Hollywood with contemporary composition techniques, Nelson has created a musical portrait that complements the documentary’s exploration of Elizabeth Taylor’s life. The music often echoes the golden age of Hollywood, capturing the glitz and glamour associated with Taylor’s career.

WAMG: You were named best young international composer at the World Soundtrack Awards. When you were younger, did you play in the school band or orchestra?

Logan Nelson: My first instrument was piano when I was six years old. Neither of my parents are musical or really artistic in any way. My mom specifically, she had always wanted to play piano, and so she said, I’ll give a little keyboard to my kid. The arrangement was I had to practice a certain amount of minutes every day and so I started doing that, and I didn’t really like it at first. During my practice time, I would make up little melodies and just kind of mess around and do my own thing. And then.

And then during my piano lessons, and I eventually started practicing, I would play these ideas to my piano teacher, and she was very supportive of it and started teaching me a little bit of music theory and a little bit of how to notate it. A lot of the early composition stuff came from not wanting to practice piano. I played viola as well, and so I played in the orchestra, and I did that in grade school and middle and high school and at the same time, though, I was really interested in film.

In middle school, there was a school project where I had to make a documentary about something, and it was just a little short thing. It was kind of during making this documentary where I discovered film music and that’s a part of the filmmaking process, so I was able to connect my interests of music and movies. This is like a dream job. I have to do this. My parents were supportive, too. When I was doing that documentary project, I was trying to figure this out.

I thought, what do people put in movies? And they, despite not being in the arts, had a huge soundtrack collection, and they said, here are all these albums from Hans Zimmer and John Williams, and you should start listening to these. I was listening to them and trying to figure out what to put in my documentary, but at the same time, I fell in love with that style of music, and I just started listening to scores all the time, and it was so much fun. 

Photo Credit: Lauren Desberg

WAMG: My mother loved Elizabeth Taylor. Her favorite movie was Cleopatra, which has an amazing score. How much did you know about the actress prior to the project and composing your terrific score?

LN: Through my love of film and studying film, I went to USC. I studied film music, but I also studied film. I had a decent film education and I remember in classes, watching Cleopatra and Cat On A Hot Tin Roof and a bunch of these movies, so I really only knew of her acting work, and I didn’t really know a lot about her personally or her relationships or the drama.

For me, it was a fresh, discovery portrayal of everything, watching her tell the story. The first time I watched the film, it was very emotional for me by the end of it. I cry every time, just hearing her tell her story and there’s a line at the end where she just talks about how she was single for the first time and that she’s doing all her philanthropic work, and it’s so emotional hearing her talk about all of that. I watched the film and I was really inspired by it immediately.

WAMG: So many instruments make up the melodies for your documentary. There’s woodwinds and these jazz elements at the very beginning. And then it transforms into these ethereal types of dreamlike, fantasy cues. All the tracks go along so well with every part of her life. The very simple and pretty piano motifs, but the one that struck me the most is how radically different they are when it moves into the relationship with Michael Todd, because all of a sudden it becomes very seductive and kind of a smooth cue. Can you talk about that one specifically? 

LN: It was interesting how they cut the film in which they used these scenes of her movies and different points of her life and at the beginning, it’s so fun and naive, and it’s very sparkly and all these “harp Glissandi”, and it’s fun, and then you start to see some of the darkness brewing and the music is reflecting that. But then we get to this period in the middle where it’s very jazz influenced and I think a lot of that comes down to probably Mike Todd and the fun that he brought to the relationship and how crazy he was as a person and just super eccentric and wild.

They’re shooting around the world and he’s on trains and boats and planes and everything, and I kind of had to match his personality in a lot of ways with the music, very percussive, very momentous, especially when they’re filming that and then afterwards you start to see the interviews of him talking about her and buying her all the diamonds. There’s a glamorous kind of jazzy, seductive, diamonds thing that’s going on with their relationship, which makes it especially sad when he’s the one who dies. I think he was really the person that was meant for her, so it’s very sad.

This stunning colored image features the lovely Elizabeth Taylor spinning a lasso on the set of the 1956 film “Giant”.

WAMG: I loved your score during that whole part. Did you have a lot of back and forth, a lot of direction from the filmmakers, how they wanted it to sound?

LN: For this one, I had a lot of flexibility, actually, which is not the most common thing. I think they knew they wanted strong melodies and very thematic, orchestral music that was inspired by this era. Some of the jazz elements incorporated throughout. When I sent in the first draft, the director said this is great. I think it was a very smooth relationship, honestly, and that doesn’t always happen, but it was great.

I was worried a little bit, trying to figure out the balance between all of these old scores and then the jazz elements and it’s really her voice in the end. It’s what I had to default to, she’s the one telling the story and it’s her perspective. The music has to reinforce that perspective and underline some of these darker notes of what she’s feeling during these seemingly exciting happy moments. We were really focused on getting under the surface and having music bring her voice so people could see this other perspective of what she was going through.

Photograph by The Elizabeth Taylor Estate/HBO

WAMG: Did you have a conversation with the music supervisor because there’s some great songs in there as well and your score is also a vocal part of the movie. Did you have a lot to do with choosing the songs, because it’s seamless between the various eras.

LN: That was the challenge, because they already had these songs licensed and set up, and so those were in place. It was very difficult at certain points to get out of a song and into the score. There’s a point where Eddie Fisher is singing on stage, and then we had to transition that singing into the score. There were so many extremely difficult transitions that you normally don’t have to deal with in scoring like this, but even for clips of Cleopatra, you would see parts of Cleopatra and you’d be hearing the score for Cleopatra, and then all of a sudden it’s Elizabeth Taylor talking and reflecting on it and I had to take the Cleopatra score by Alex North and keep it kind of in the Cleopatra world, but kind of different. But to do that, I had to study Cleopatra and study all of these other scores and figure out what they were doing so I could transition out of it in a smooth way. It was really fun to study all these old scores and pieces and learn from them and take little pieces to extrapolate on. But it was very hard.

This iconic and elegant portrait captured by celebrity photographer Frank Worth features actress Elizabeth Taylor on the set of the film “Giant” for her role as character Leslie Benedict. This half-length shot features the actress in a white bikini top posed holding her sunglasses touching the tip of them to her mouth. Photograph by Frank Worth/HBO

WAMG: What was it like to have your film premiere at the Cannes Film Festival? Was that just like, oh, my gosh, my score is in this documentary and here we are at Cannes.

LN: (Laughs) Cannes is the best festival in the world for film. That was the biggest honor, of course, to have it there and the editor and the director and I, we all went up on stage and announced the film together and it was just received so well. Elizabeth Taylor is such an icon of Hollywood and the industry and she had been to Cannes so many times. She had such a history of being there and to then have followed her footsteps with the film was just really special.

Getty Images

And it was really cool, too, because the estate of Elizabeth Taylor was involved with the production of this as well, so her grandsons were producers on it and they were there as well at the screening. Afterwards, they came up to me and they were, “thank you for doing such an honor to my grandmother. I think the score really reflected her and she would have been proud of it.”

Out of any moment, that was the most touching compliment that I could have received. Even more than an audience, because when you do these films about specific people, you just want to show them in a good light and how they would have wanted to be portrayed. For the family to feel like that she was portrayed in a good way was really special.

Photo Credit: Lauren Desberg

WAMG: That’s a great story. That really is.

You did another documentary NOTHING LASTS FOREVER about diamonds. The Hollywood Reporter said your score was ”like mining that genre and sometimes spritely kick of a heist film.” Do you have a preference? Do you like jumping from a tv series on Apple TV to doing these documentaries to doing just a flat out film score?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/nothing-lasts-forever-review-1235090066

LN: Yes and it keeps me sane, because you go so deep into one of these projects and you really just kind of obsess about it and write it. You kind of need to separate and go in a different direction for a little bit to have new ideas and oftentimes you’re working on a couple of these at the same time and so it’s difficult to. If they’re too close together, it’s difficult to differentiate and have unique, exciting ideas or get excited about each one. 

Whereas if you’re working on the  Elizabeth Taylor documentary, if I’m really excited to write some orchestral music or study some jazz today, I can work on that. And if I’m working on “The Morning Show”, that’s just a more percussive, modern kind of score, and that’s completely different. I can just go wherever I’m feeling, and it always gives me better ideas.

WAMG: You worked on season two and three of “The Morning Show” with Carter Burwell. Are you working on season four?

LN: We haven’t started yet. They’re still shooting, so hopefully it works out and we’re brought back. But they just started production on it. 

WAMG: There were a lot of unanswered questions from season three.

LN: The characters just continue to grow and change so much, and it’s such a quickly evolving show that you’re like, we were in Italy in season two, and now we’re in space in season three. 

WAMG: I want to ask you one last thing about your beautiful piece of classical music, “Lavender Echoes”. It’s on YouTube. It’s got some beautiful strings to it.  It’s so different from tv and film and documentaries. It’s classical music for all intents and purposes.  The strings are just amazing. Are you going to try to keep with that?

LN: I love doing that kind of stuff. I want to do more of it. That was a project where I could just do whatever I wanted and I could record with whoever I wanted to and record wherever I wanted to. We recorded at Abbey Road for that which I had never been to, and I really wanted to go, and I want these musicians. I kind of just really got to make it however I wanted it to be and there’s often so many limitations on film projects or constraints or different things that they want and need and notes and everything, so to do what I wanted to do for a second was really fun and exciting and fulfilling. I would completely do something different now because there’s so many other things I want to explore. I feel like they’ll probably be another similar type of album soon with other musicians.

WAMG: Cannes Film Festival. Check. Abbey Road. Check. What’s next?

LN: I’ve done a bunch of really exciting documentary projects mostly. There’s one that just came out on Hulu called Mastermind, which is about the first woman who pioneered the psychoanalysis of serial killers. She kind of got inside their heads and figured out what made them do what they did so then she could help the FBI track them down and find them. That was a completely different project, too. That was a very synthy, kind of eighties style score. That kept me in a completely other direction than Elizabeth Taylor. 

And then there’s another docu series about the Stanford Prison Experiment coming to National Geographic. That’ll be sometime this fall.

https://deadline.com/2024/04/nat-geo-the-stanford-prison-experiment-docuseries-1235887966

Emmy Award-Winning Composer Blake Neely Discusses His Score For Apple TV+’s MASTERS OF THE AIR

Based on Donald L. Miller’s book of the same name, and scripted by John Orloff, “Masters of the Air” follows the men of the 100th Bomb Group (the “Bloody Hundredth”) as they conduct perilous bombing raids over Nazi Germany and grapple with the frigid conditions, lack of oxygen and sheer terror of combat conducted at 25,000 feet in the air. Portraying the psychological and emotional price paid by these young men as they helped destroy the horror of Hitler’s Third Reich, is at the heart of “Masters of the Air.” Some were shot down and captured; some were wounded or killed. And some were lucky enough to make it home. Regardless of individual fate, a toll was exacted on them all.

The series received three Emmy nominations for Outstanding Sound Editing For A Limited Or Anthology Series, Movie Or Special, Outstanding Sound Mixing For A Limited Or Anthology Series Or Movie and Outstanding Original Main Title Theme Music.

Blake Neely, the composer for the magnificent, solemn and soulful score for “Masters of the Air,” received a well deserved Emmy nomination. He has been nominated for seven Emmy Awards for his work on Everwood, The Pacific, Pan Am, Pamela, a Love Story, Good Night Oppy and won the Emmy (2021) for The Flight Attendant.

Starting with his work on “Everwood” and spanning through film and TV, I recently spoke with Neely on the “heart” of the show… his majestic score for the Apple TV series.

In our interview we discussed the connection of his current work to the late Michael Kamen, the legendary composer Neely worked with on “Band of Brothers.”  Kamen’s iconic scores for “Highlander,” “Lethal Weapon,” “Robin Hood,” “ Prince of Thieves,” “From The Earth to the Moon” and “The Iron Giant” are well known for film score enthusiasts.

Neely spoke about his close association with Kamen, and how he started as Kamen’s orchestrator on “Band of Brothers” and later worked on “The Pacific.” However, Neely expressed that “Masters of the Air” serves as a personal “Love Letter” to his mentor. He even shared the personal connection he felt with the title music, inspired by his own family’s World War II experience. 

As to getting “Masters of the Air’s” musical sounds of the era just right, Neely said, “I purposefully did not use any instruments prior to 1945. I joined after the show was complete and they showed me the nine episodes, so I had to write to score and it worked. My Title music was inspired by having family who served during World War II.” He gives much credit to Deva Anderson, the Music Supervisor, “she was great with the songs for the era.“

The richness of the episodes seems more like a film and less like a series. “We described it,” he said, “as 9 episodes being one big movie.” The music, strategically placed even at the end credits, was meant to be a companion for the emotional weight of each episode. “I’ve been working with Playtone for a few decades now and hoped audiences would stay to the end. We wanted people to listen to the end credits to process the episode they just watched. Both Tom Hanks and Producer Gary Goetzman have a deep understanding of music and the intricacies of how important it was to this series.”

When exploring the score’s layers. including the tension and excitement it built, Neely revealed he enjoys composing the softer moments for scenes like “Bucky and Paulina’s dance” in the 4th episode. 

Fans of his superhero scores on shows like Greg Berlanti’s Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, immediately recognize his work, but the composer said, ”For a while I was composing for 5 different superhero shows so I needed a break from that.” Neely also acknowledged the evolving role of composers with streaming platforms. Coming from the integration of new technology these days, “all composers have to have the music completed before you submit it.” He added that fans of his score had sent him videos where his music for “Masters of the Air” was used with the U.S. Military and the British Military.

Neely’s score for MASTERS OF THE AIR is a testament to the power of music – its ability to evoke emotions and create a shared experience that transcends the screen.

From Apple Studios, “Masters of the Air” is executive produced by Spielberg through Amblin Television, and Hanks and Goetzman for Playtone. Amblin Television’s Darryl Frank and Justin Falvey co-executive produce alongside Playtone’s Steven Shareshian. In addition to writing, Orloff co-executive produces. Graham Yost is also a co-executive producer. Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck, Cary Joji Fukunaga, Dee Rees and Tim Van Patten serve as directors.

For more on the series, watch the conversation the Motion Picture & Television Fund had with the artists.

The 76th Emmy Awards will be broadcast live from the Peacock Theater at L.A. LIVE Sunday, Sept. 15, 2024, (8:00-11:00 PM EDT/5:00-8:00 PM PDT) on ABC and stream the next day on Hulu.

Cinematographer Pat Scola Discusses His Work On A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE And SING SING

A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE is an experience where moviegoers witness the day the world went quiet in this terrifying continuation of the A Quiet Place universe. When Samira (Lupita Nyong’o) returns home to New York City, her simple trip turns into a harrowing nightmare when mysterious creatures that hunt by sound attack. Accompanied by her cat Frodo and an unexpected ally (Joseph Quinn), Samira must embark on a perilous journey through the city that has suddenly gone silent, where the only rule is to stay quiet to stay alive. Djimon Hounsou and Alex Wolff also star in this intensely suspenseful thriller.

The visual storytelling in A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE delivered a powerful and immersive cinematic journey that relied heavily on imagery to convey its narrative and emotional depth. From glimpses of monstrous forms to sound visualization of the characters, the beauty of the film literally permeated the screen through the lens of Director of Photography Pat Scola.

Scola, a New York native, began his career in music videos for artists like The Weeknd, Alt J, Flying Lotus and more, lensing a total of 5 nominations and one win at the SXSW Music Video Competition over the years. His film work is highlighted by Michael Sarnoski’s PIG, for which he received the ASC’s Spotlight Award for Outstanding Cinematography and was named in Variety’s 10 Cinematographers to watch.

His credits include the Miramax sci-fi film MOTHER/ANDROID, directed by Mattson Tomlin, produced by Matt Reeves and starring Chloe Grace Moretz. Scola also shot MONSTERS AND MEN, directed by Reinaldo Marcus Green and starring John David Washington, which won the dramatic special jury prize at the Sundance Film Festival in 2018. Other feature film credits include AND THEN I GO, an official selection at LA Film Festival in 2017 and directed by Vincent Grashaw; MAYA DARDELL, a SXSW official selection in 2017 and directed by Zachary Cotler and Magdalena Zyzak; and Sundance Grand Jury Prize nominee SOUTHSIDE WITH YOU, directed by Richard Tanne

The DP’s three recent films, WE GROWN NOW, earning him a Best Cinematography nomination at the Independent Spirit Awards (Review), A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE, and SXSW 24’ Festival Favorites, SING SING, all bowed in cinemas in 2024.

I spoke with Pat Scola after the release of A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE and coincidentally the limited release of SING SING. We discussed his multiple films with director Michael Sarnoski, his passion for the camera, a vested interest in all his projects, and his own personal message for audiences.

Interview conducted on July 12th, 2024

WAMG: Congratulations on A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE. The film just passed 100 million domestically.

SING SING is opening today and your other film, WE GROWN NOW, also opened this year, so you’ve had a lot going on. 

Pat Scola: Yeah, it’s been a busy last two years.

WAMG: Before we talk about any of your films, when did you start your career? What made you want to be a cinematographer? And once you decided that, how did you plunge in?

PS: I was speaking to somebody earlier today and they kind of joked that because I really wasn’t good at any other art form, I got into cinematography. I always had an interest in photography. I spent a lot of time in high school in my dark room. And when I went to college, the same thing. But I wanted to be an editor, and that’s what I was going to school to maybe try and do. Ultimately, I got kind of dragged onto my first sort of student film set.  I never really experienced anything like it.

I would say I knew then that I wanted to be doing something in that capacity. I didn’t know what yet. I think gravitating to photography and editing have kind of steered me down this path. I don’t think I ever could have known that it would have ended right here and where I’m at. It’s not something that ever really occurred to me. I liked shooting films. I liked having a camera. But where I am now, I‘m still not quite sure how it all happened. 

WAMG: Did you work on commercials or on music videos previously? 

PS: I would say my career really got started when I made this little $5,000 music video. You can kind of point to these little milestones in your life, right?  And I did this little $5,000 music video for, at that time, an unknown band called Alt J.

That video was for a song called “Breezeblocks.” That record would go on to win the Mercury prize and it ended up going viral.  You know, it really spread quickly. I don’t know how many views it has today but at that time, it got me noticed in the music video community, and I started to get more calls to shoot more videos. That changed a lot for me because before that, I was living in Brooklyn, and I was shooting behind the scenes on things. I was doing anything that I could to have a camera in my hands. I thought it was a win.

It was all non-glamorous but interesting work, shooting interviews for stuff. I was happy and I felt like I was lucky I was doing something.  This kind of really changed it to me and propelled me into a proper career in cinematography.  It’s like, up until this point, I wasn’t. A year or two after that video, is when I basically started to make my income as a photographer.  That was a very interesting time. I thought to myself “Is this becoming real? A little bit, maybe? “

PIG/Michael Sarnoski

WAMG: You where the DP on PIG with Michael Sarnoski, the director.  What was that conversation like when he told you I’d like for you to be my DP on A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE, and how were you brought onto the film?

PS:  A producer that I had done a film with was doing a budget for PIG for their producers, and I think he had floated my name to them, and then at the time, that had gone through my agent and come to me. When PIG was being passed around at that point, people kept calling it “John Wick With A Pig”. My natural inclination when I got that was, I’m not really interested in that kind of story. I do remember at the time, my agent was, have a read at it, you might think differently. I did read it, and it is very different. I mean, the movie you see is there on the page. Michael’s just a beautiful writer. There’s so much sensitivity that’s hidden on the page or just plainly there, but there’s a real weight to what he does, reading one of his scripts. I kind of saw that immediately. I really felt like I knew what he was trying to do. I got really interested and then I went and met Michael and his producer Vanessa Block at a coffee shop at that time. The meeting really turned when we started talking about pig napping. We called it the pig napping, when his pig gets taken in the film, and I started to describe it this way: ‘I saw it as this sort of  where he gets hit by the door, but the camera also falls down to the floor and it kind of turns sideways and it rolls over on the ground with him.’ As I’m explaining it, Michael’s staring at me, and I’m like, oh man, he hates this. I thought, no, you’re here now, you gotta go for it.

Afterwards, he pulled out his storyboards, his hand drawn storyboards, and what he had sketched out was the same idea, very much on the same page about how this kind of should feel. That’s the moment that crystallized that we’re going to do this together. Here we are, two movies later with A QUIET PLACE.

Joseph Quinn as “Eric” and Director Michael Sarnoski in A Quiet Place: Day One from Paramount Pictures.

WAMG: When did he bring you onto A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE?

PS: The moment he got the job, that was early on. That was before he even had written the script, that being said, because with this film, he really wanted me to work on it. There was a lot of red tape from the studio that we had to get through and jump over in order to get me across the line to do the film. But Michael really stood behind me and really dug his feet in and bringing me along, and I appreciate what he did there. The studio was really happy with the way it looked, what we were doing visually.

Simon Bowles / © 2023 PARAMOUNT PICTURES. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

WAMG: I’m such a huge fan of the franchise. I spoke with the production designer, Simon Bowles, in a recent interview. He talked a lot about how much he likes Michael. They walked in Brooklyn, they walked through New York, and he mentioned Michael was like, “hey, we could just shoot on location.”  And Simon’s like, “no, I don’t really think we can. We have to probably shoot this in London, and we’ve got to have these sets where some of it’s going to be filmed, and some of it’s going to be like VR.”  From your point of view, because he said he met with you, he met with the costume designer, how did all of you work together to implement your vision for the movie?

PS:  We did spend a lot of time walking around New York City. Simon had some wonderful models all over his office. Models and models and things being built, so we would often spend loads of time kind of mulling over these models. And we talked to Simon, and we built two major models.  We built two major streets, and one minor street, and we had 260 setups to accomplish in this so it wouldn’t feel stale. Simon did an excellent job at redressing those streets from Chinatown to the lower east side to Harlem so it’s different. Michael and I were with Simon a lot, and we were quite meticulous about how, with these models that he made, how do we see the whole world in different ways all the time, so we’re not just ending up shooting on the same corners.

That was a very big part of the early process, trying to figure out how to maximize what Simon had provided for us, how to utilize every inch of that place so that it really feels like Sam and Eric are traveling from one side of the street to the other and not repeating these streets over and over again.

Nico and Schnitzel as Frodo, Sam’s cat https://www.instagram.com/lupitanyongo/

WAMG: Shooting a film with animals – you’ve worked with pigs and cats. There were two cats. What were some of the challenges for you as a cinematographer?

PS: We did a lot of tests early on with the cat and filming techniques and seeing what the cat didn’t like and did like. Here’s the difference. The pig doesn’t really care about the camera, it’s not a skittish animal. Its very food driven. There was a shot early in the movie, that we loved, that we called the “pig butt shot.’’  Wherever the camera’s following Brandy (the pig) running and waddling, and it’s on her cute little tail.  And we thought, oh man, we should echo the “pig butt shot” with the cat. We have to have the camera following the cat that way. But in our early tests we discovered we could not follow the cat with a camera. It was so aware that something was behind it. They’re totally different animals, and they bring different challenges, but with the early tests with Nico and Schnitzel we found out things we can do and things we couldn’t do, things that we should stay away from.

PIG

The thing with both animals that probably, I think Michael may say, too, is we really learned this around the second week of A Quiet Place with Nico and Schnitzel, because, again, the pig is not that worried about the camera. I mean, the pig was just food motivated and Brandy was kind of messy. She would bite me and Nick. She knocked the cameras over and it was kind of hilarious and funny, but Nico and Schnitzel were just smarter, as if to say we’re not gonna play your stupid game, man. And our trainers were just absolutely tremendous. They were incredible, but we kind of figured out early on, while trying to get these really specific cat performances, we started to realize let’s just lay off that a little bit and let them be cats a little bit more. I think there was this aha moment where the magic of the cat really started to come alive and sort of let go of that a little bit. And I think we got some really wonderful performances that way and just sort of embracing what they do and allowing our frames to incorporate what they may or may not do a lot of the time.

PIG

WAMG: I wondered how much of this is really a cat and what’s CGI?

PS: It’s all real. No visual effects cat. There’s none of that and it’s all a real cat. And if it’s not real in the moment, it’s a stuffed cat that we had made that was a freakishly, realistic stuffed cat. That was more for Lupita and Eric. When we were doing something kind of dangerous, like running a certain way, we didn’t need to use the real cat. We would use the stuffed one to give them the weight, but for the most part you’re seeing a real cat. Like, when Eric’s running down the pier at the end of the movie, that’s the cat in his arms, and when he comes up out of the water, that’s the real cat!

WAMG: I was wondering while watching, is that a real cat? Because cats would flip out underneath the water. 

PS: We did a lot of water training with them, and there’s obviously, we were, you know, there are very serious rules in place for getting a cat wet. I don’t remember they are specifically, but it’s like, once they’re wet, they can’t do anything for another 45 minutes. We had our animal people there that were keeping us all very honest and on the clock about it. And everything was always talked about in taking a lot of great care and making sure the animals were cool. But what was really fun to watch was Nico and Schnitzel, over the course of the film, came to really trust Lupita and Joe, so by the end of the movie, you have Joe sprinting down the boardwalk, and the cat’s just chilling, just like, okay, we’re doing this. You know, we’re cool. It’s kind of fun to watch that relationship grow and that trust between the animals, and it’s something you can see on screen quite a lot, too.

Joseph Quinn as “Eric” in A Quiet Place: Day One from Paramount Pictures.

WAMG: Your other film, Sing Sing, (Review) a totally different film, opened today in limited release and then wide August 2. From what I have seen, I think Colman Domingo will be nominated for the role. Just wow.  How did you join this film and did you and the directors look into filming at Sing Sing or was there another real prison that you guys could shoot in?

PS:  We were working with the New York State Department of Corrections. The directors, Greg Kwedar and Clint Bentley, and producer Monique Walton were working very closely with them, so we have a lot of help and cooperation from them. We have a lot of establishing shots in the way that is truly Sing Sing from the outside and some things on the grounds there, but because films have been photographed in Sing Sing before, but I think mostly like scenes, I think with the amount of density and the amount of work we had to do photographing in Sing Sing, plus we had COVID protocols on set, we knew this was something that wasn’t going to happen for us inside there.

What we ended up doing is shooting at two other decommissioned prison facilities. It’s sort of a mix of these two decommissioned prisons. A lot of establishing work at Sing Sing on the Hudson River, looking back at it and on the grounds and then we do a lot of our theater work, specifically just a sort of laddering piece of the film at Deacon High School, actually a kind of fake Deacon High School stage or the stage inside of Sing Sing’s chapel, which is a space that we use in the film.

WAMG: To get that kind of authenticity, that kind of honesty, did you shoot on film or did you shoot on digital?

PS: We shot on film. About 85% of our actors were formerly incarcerated inside of a theater program in Sing Sing called RTA, Rehabilitation Through the Arts, that’s what the film is based on.  These are all alumni that have gone through the program inside and come out on the outside.

They came back into act as versions of themselves or tapping into some sense of their past and their history and their truth to put on screen for us. We felt that from a very early point, that film was the correct medium to tell this story for a couple of reasons. That was something I had seen early on in the research. Clint and Greg had all of these amazing zooms and hours of talking with a lot of the guys who ended up in our film. We were listening to one of their stories, and one of them described how they used to wear a watch, but the time was always wrong. It was something that shook me a little bit how time functions in a place like this for the people inside and maybe extending that to our viewers a little bit in the sense that there’s a very specific time period, but we really don’t show it to you. If you look closely, you’d be able to find out. But there’s not a lot of things that really tell you when this takes place and that’s kind of by design a little bit. We were kind of chasing something, a look that felt not like something that was necessarily made today, maybe something that was made in the late 1990’s or early 2000s, something that just didn’t feel digital and modern, like, wanted to feel like this is something that did happen or maybe still could be happening, and it’s still happening, by the way, and will continue to happen, but I’m still keeping it out of dating it out of a time style that feels modern, you know?

And a lot of the film is about men finding their humanity inside of this place behind these walls and it’s about to the joy and warmth and heartbreak of everything that these men go through inside. When you’re in the room with these guys and you’re in the room with them performing, you’re in the room telling their stories, feeling like there’s this same feeling that you try to capture. It’s just so warm and that was something that we really wanted to make sure we got on screen.

It was a really great choice to shoot on film, leaning into the warmth and the skin tones that we get out of that, versus something that was a little bit colder and maybe more sterile feeling. I look at the film now and I think, unequivocally, it was correct to do.  I’m proud that on such a small film, we were able to kind of achieve that, which is not always, you really have to have great partners, great producing partners, great director partner that is willing to stand up for that kind of format, you know, on such a small budget.

WAMG: I read The Hollywood Reporter story where the filmmakers said they paid everyone on set the same. It was part of their pitch. They paid everyone from the PA’s to the stars the same wage just to give that kind of equity. You’ve worked on independent films, you’ve worked on a big studio films. Do you have a preference?

PS: I can’t fully form that opinion just yet. There are things that I really like about both. With A Quiet Place and a budget that size, comes a lot of oversight. I’ve never had that much, I don’t know how to phrase this, other than, movie magic potential right around you because you have such a large crew of people that you can kind of do anything. Can we set this on fire, can we improv this shot that maybe, like, on an independent film, I wouldn’t necessarily have the crew or staff to be able to achieve something as fast or that way.  That part is quite interesting.

With all that comes the other stuff and it’s par for the course, but there’s this thing, in an independent film that happens where it really does feel like there’s two or three people at the head of this thing, and you’re really making the choices on the ground every day. They belong to this very core group of people making those choices. And I feel like, as a result, a voice can be stronger in an independent film that way. I think that’s what I prefer on that side. I just really prefer a singular vision and a feeling this is taken from one person.

The dream is that you can transcend an independent film across that platform and find a way to have the mainstream care about those stories. Typically, marketing is really where independent films lacks its financing more than anything. You can get a movie made for a million bucks if you really want to, but being able to get it out in front of people who end up seeing it and creating a buzz around it.  That’s the hard part. I think that when Sing Sing, for example, A24 is an incredible partner and have been doing incredible work to create a word of mouth and a buzz around the film.  Conversely, A Quiet Place just puts a tremendous, massive billboard every major city everywhere, it’s impossible not to think about it. We seldom talk about how marketing affects the vision of a film or what can be seen by the public.  

WAMG:  I loved A Quiet Place: Day One. I loved the way it was shot. There were so many parts of that film that were just so intimate, and you just really felt for all those characters during that alien invasion.

PS: That was a big part of that film because as much as it’s this invasion, the core of that story is about Sam and her taking death back on her terms a little bit. It was really important for us to be able to balance both that scope and that scale that I think you want an audience expecting to kind of see there, while also keeping it quite subjective and relevant to Sam’s point of view and her feelings.  I think that there’s a nice balance there. If you’re looking for, it’s got something you appreciate. If you get a chance, Sing Sing is out in New York and LA, and in August elsewhere. If you get a chance, it’s worth the watch.

WAMG: Are you taking a break or working on more projects?

PS: I just finished one, Lurker. It is Alan Russell’s directorial debut.  He was a writer on “The Bear” and “Beef,” both Emmy winning shows. This is his first film that he’s directed. It’s finished. We shot that earlier this winter.

Right now, I’m just kind of treading water until November where I will start on Michael Sarnoski’s next movie, The Death of Robin Hood.  Not much we can say about it, obviously but that would be the next thing for sure.

“The film follows an aging Robin Hood grappling with his past after a life of crime and murder who finds himself gravely injured after a battle he thought would be his last. In the hands of a mysterious woman, he is offered a chance at salvation. Production on the film is set to begin in February 2025.”

https://deadline.com/2024/05/a24-death-of-robin-hood-hugh-jackman-1235925982

Follow Pat Scola on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/patscola/

Production Designer Simon Bowles Talks Creating The Noises, Colors and Sets Of A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE

In 2018, John Krasinski’s A QUIET PLACE turned silence into the building blocks of fright and forged from the horror-thriller genre a modern fable of family love, communication and survival. With its mix of relentless tension and layered storytelling about a tightknit clan fending off an immensely destructive, sound-attuned alien force, the film became a startling hit and cultural phenomenon.

Starting the second chapter quite literally mere seconds after the first movie ends, Krasinski wanted A QUIET PLACE PART II to again be more than a visceral sensory experience. It had to also drive the Abbott family’s emotional journey forward—this time, towards both independence and community.

Playing in theaters now is director Michael Sarnoski ‘s A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE. A prequel to A QUIET PLACE, the film takes place on the day the creatures arrived on Earth. Set in New York City, audiences witness the devastation of the invasion and how people were thrust into a survival mode of “If they hear you, they hunt you.”

Jim Batts wrote in his review that “Sarnoski captures that feeling of doom and dread, especially as we get several hints early on (jets in formation) that all Hell was soon “break loose”. While there are grand, epic “set pieces” of the aliens scurrying up buildings, Sarnoski really focuses on the folks at ground level. This is best highlighted in a mass exodus street scene in which the smallest noises alert the beasts who zip through the crowds, picking off the marchers with swift efficiency. It’s nightmare imagery, building on the hopelessness hinted at as the bridges to the city are taken out hinting that the feds think that our greatest metropolis is a “loss”. review.

Sitting at 87% on Rotten Tomatoes, A QUIET PLACE: DAY ONE has done well at the box office, grossing $178.2 million worldwide (as of July 7, 2024). It had a strong domestic opening of $52.2 million, the highest in the franchise’s history.

Recently WAMG spoke with British Production Designer, Simon Bowles. From historical dramas to comedies to horror films, Bowles has designed for films such as THE DESCENT, DOG SOLDIERS, HYDE PARK ON THE HUDSON, THE SON and PRIDE. He has collaborated twice with director Amma Asante on BELLE and A UNITED KINGDOM. The last time we spoke was 2017 for his work on CROOKED HOUSE.

Bowles has created some of the most memorable sets in recent cinema and during our conversation after the film opened, we talked about how he designed a silent movie set showing the events that led up to the alien invasion, creating models and using virtual reality in creating a world full of monsters.

WAMG: Congratulations on the film, it’s amazing! How did you get involved and when were you brought onto the project and what kind of collaboration did you have with the director Michael Sarnoski (Pig), the cinematographer Pat Scola and especially the costume designer Bex Crofton-Atkins?

Simon Bowles: I worked on a movie called Apartment 7A, which is also for Paramount. It’s a prequel for Rosemary’s baby. It comes out premiering on Paramount plus in October.

The psychological thriller Apartment 7A stars Julia Garner, Dianne Wiest, Jim Sturgess and Kevin McNally and is directed by Natalie Erika James and produced by Platinum Dunes/Sunday Night in association with Paramount Pictures and premieres exclusively on Paramount+ in the fall, 2024. Photo Credit: Gareth Gatrell/Paramount+.

I was designing that and the producers said, “we love your work on this movie, and we would love to set up a meeting with you and A Quiet Place: Day One’s director, Michael Swarovski, which is amazing because it wasn’t just the producers asking me.  He wasn’t there at the time, but it was also John Krasinski, because this is totally his baby. I was really bowled over and so grateful for the opportunity even just to speak to Michael about the project.

I’m a massive fan of the first two movies. I joined the BAFTA jury years ago because the films I’d worked on, like The Descent and Dog Soldiers, never got a look in at award season because they’re horror genre. I was so delighted to see that the first movie did so well, not just at the box office, but also critically and in the awards season. I was really, really eager to meet Michael and talk about the project. I read the script and put together some design movie boards and color boards and texture boards and destruction boards to create a real kind of visual feast of how I would see the movie.

Also kind of respecting, you know, the connection to the first two movies. But this one has got such a big contrast to the other two movies. You know, it’s the same world and it’s the same creatures and it’s just so fantastically… the end atmosphere is different, the cast obviously are different, but the setting of the first two movies was kind of mostly in the countryside. It was really about big open vistas and the grasses that the creatures are running through and seeing them coming nearer. There are a few interiors, obviously, but this big open rural environment. Whereas reading through Day One, that script was in Manhattan, it’s all about a vertical. You can see very little sky, but it means that the creatures can be anywhere. They can be on the rooftops, they can be in the buildings.

There are creatures in the subway as well and they burst out from underneath you as well, so it’s all about the vertical rather than the horizontal from the first two movies. I put all those balls together and lovely juicy ideas and met with Michael and we got on so well, so fantastically well. And we were laughing and talking about the gore. He’s a big fan of my horror movies, so he was asking me lots of questions about those, which is fantastic. It was just such a wonderful environment. We became best friends straight away.

It turned out that he didn’t want to meet anybody else. Actually, I think the first time I physically met him, I flew to New York to spend some time with him, but also to take the journey to kind of like we met up in the morning that we went out and about. We met in Chinatown and we walked the journey, up through the lower east side, you know, which is why there are really key elements of the story. You know, like it wasn’t in the script, but, you know, it’s really important for Samira to start her journey like heading underneath the Manhattan Bridge, because as we know, that first bit north of that’s the first connective bit of architecture that joins Chinatown Lower east side. Michael’s standing there under the Manhattan bridge saying, “we must do this. And there should be like a truck that’s kind of like the creatures have attacked and it’s hit the rail and then it’s going to burst through the rail, and the cab is kind of like half hanging up.” Just small things like that on that 1st day together, we kind of pulled out so many little elements and also things like exploring the neighborhoods.

Chinatown is so different. It connects right up to the Lower east side, but it’s so different and I wanted to be so truthful with the sets that we really represent those neighborhoods truthfully, authentically, respectfully, not make a kind of cliche of each of them. As we were going through, I was photographing my favorite stores. Obviously, there are some stores which are fairly well known in each of the neighborhoods. But I thought it would be great to really reference them, not only the color and the type of stores and what they’re selling and things, but also just a squint at it, see what the color scheme is for that neighborhood.

Obviously, Chinatown was, you know, it’s great to start with Chinatown in the movie because it’s so fantastic with the colors of the reds and the golds and the greens. Even the fire escapes are those colors and such great restaurants. I noticed the graffiti in Chinatown was very kind of dirty and layered and quite crudely done. Whereas you go into the Lower east side and suddenly they’re like murals and they’re using silver in the spray as well to add reflective quality to the graffiti. Things like the cycle lane, it’s a big green strip, so already there’s a different approach to color and texture and aging and things, so that was really great fun.

Simon Bowles / © 2023 PARAMOUNT PICTURES. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

But we spent a really good day just doing that walk and then we came back to London. It was interesting talking to Michael because he’d come from kind of indie movies where you shoot everything on location and he was really like, “can we not shoot it here?” And it took me back. I had to actually, like, maybe we could, you know, let me have a look. You know, afterall, that’s not gonna work.

I did a film, The Son, with Hugh Jackman, a few years ago and it was set in New York where we shot it all in London. And then we did a little bit of location work of him getting in and out of cars and walking along and things and even just doing that was a complete nightmare because we just have no control. Luckily, everybody knows Hugh Jackman lives in New York, so all the locals just ignored him, so it was quite easy in that way, but to have somebody covered with dust and the control we would need was impossible. I put together an idea of how we would take all that information and those stores and bring it to London and build a backlot set. We built that so early on and had the fantastic Pat Scola, the DP, and Bex Crofton-Atkins, who’s the costume designer.

Director Michael Sarnoski and Lupita Nyong’o as “Samira” in A Quiet Place: Day One from Paramount Pictures.

Initially it was just Michael and I and we came up with all these ideas, and I was producing visuals, and I even kind of started building the street, designing all the buildings on the computer. And then it was like, it’s a very small step to put it into a virtual reality headset, so I had Michael walking around the backlot setting before we started building it, which was fantastic for him, again, as an indie director, to be able to come into this massive world of visual effects movies, to be able to walk into the environment and see it. You know, my team is amazing. We put on the controllers, we put a button that you press, and it kind of adds the top up so all the visual effects, all the extended stories, because we only built the lower two stories grounds – first and second and then we could build four blocks. When you stand in the middle, you always see the end because even though it’s a couple hundred feet away, you don’t see the end. It’s great for him to be able to walk around and understand that there will only be two stories on set.

To be able to switch that on and off so that when he walks on the set, it’s not like he has to just stay within the two stories. He can shoot off because it can be extended. But then bringing Pat Scola in on that and talking through the lovely sets and the research that we’ve done and the walking around New York.

Pat brought so much to it as well, with lighting and just the warmth of those first scenes. You know, we shot it at the wrong time of the year in a different country, different temperature, but we shot it in February, so we had to have massive lights on, massive cranes to really bring in the warmth of those early scenes and then bringing Bex in as well was fantastic and she comes from an interesting place as well.

Her idea for Samira’s costume, with texture of the Cardigan and the color of the cardigan and the beanie and all that stuff was fantastic and extended through into everybody’s costumes, obviously, and even the supporting artists, the extras in the background, the crowds. We wanted to really choose colors all between us, choose the colors and how they all work together and the grade and try and work all of that into the pre production period so that when we were shooting, you know, we’d watch the monitor, and that’s pretty much exactly as it appears in the movie, with very little grading. It graded it in the prep, in the design process, in the pre production period altogether. The color of the dust, the gray, what kind of color temperature that gray was, you know, worked with Denise Kum’s, the makeup design, the hair and makeup.

Lupita Nyong’o as “Samira” in A Quiet Place: Day One from Paramount Pictures.

WAMG: There were such subtle details in the original that built such tension, and it’s the sound, or lack thereof, that was such a crucial element to the first film. How do you go about designing for something that’s supposed to be really quiet and how are your set design choices taking into account the film’s focus on this kind of sonic horror? 

SB: When I was walking around Chinatown, especially Chinatown, it’s where I thought, it’s going to be so important to have those sounds at the beginning – fire trucks and noise and stuff to sell the volume. But actually, I felt that it was the lighting. I have little practical lights everywhere on a set to give the Director of Photography something to light with, to give an excuse to give a reason for having a light on someone’s face, you know, in a set. I wanted to give something for the sound department as well, something that they could use on the set, so when I was walking around Chinatown, I noticed the number of noisy things, big things and little things, 

There was a busker who was playing instruments and hooked up to a little amplifier. There was a games arcade, you know, like the pinball and things. And as I walked past that, it was really noisy. All that kind of music and beeping and even the money going in and the coins rolling down inside, and you can hear all of that really loudly. I photographed that, and they were like. There were the garbage collecting guys with these big kinds of chin height, blue plastic containers with wheels on the bottom, and they were kind of pushing them along, and the wheels were all a bit jammed and squeaky. And so they were making a noise and they kind of dump it onto the street and then push it across the street and then bang it up onto the other side.

I was photographing all these noisy things everywhere and I gave those to my set decorating and props department and said we need all of these, so I did a whole big thing on the wall of all the noisy things and they all appear in the movie and they’re all in my kind of, like, visuals for the set design as well. That’s why it’s important to see all those, partially because just to be able to play the noise level, but also it’s important to see them afterwards. When we see where the busker was, the blood smears and his equipment, the store with the arcades and with the music, with the games arcade. We actually liked it so much, we put the camera inside, so when Samira walked past, we panned with her and all you can see is all the machines all twisted and broken and all the lights are dim and you’re looking through a kind of broken void of the store and there’s blood all around it, like the creature reached in and pulled someone out and all the noisy stuff, they just smashed it all up.

We put a lot of things in there like rubber glass, broken glass and things on the streets. I pointed it out to the cast, there’s some noisy things here you might want to avoid when you’re walking through. You know, we wanted to do a lot of signs of life. People had been there like a walker for an old person and a stroller, the little teddy bear with its head torn off and blood on it. All those little elements that are in there, but, there were signs of noisy things that have been taken away.

WAMG: Even though the film was shot in London you worked with virtual reality. How did that affect your job, which is so tactile and tangible, and all of a sudden you’re having to visualize and create this world. How did that come into play as opposed to when you were working on The Descent, when you were working on Dog Soldiers, and all of a sudden, here you are with VR, putting on the goggles and having two hand controllers. Did this help you with visuals and creating New York City and Chinatown and Harlem? 

SB: Yes, it really did. It’s interesting because in my design process, there’s a very small window when virtual reality is useful, and it works really well before we start building the scenery so that the director and the director of photography can be on the set to see it. And because it’s stereoscopic, you can see what is near and what is far away.

Virtual reality isn’t a separate thing. It’s part of one of the tools that I use. On The Descent, I built scale models where the people were that big. They’re inch and a half high, and a big model of every single cave on The Descent and they were all colored, and the caves that were wet had a varnish spray on them, so there was a little kind of shininess to it. And that was really important because there were loads of caves on The Descent, 25 models, and we put them in this room with all the curtains closed, the blinds were shut, and we gave the director of photography some torches and some table lights and things. Put lights on every single one of those sets, but left them switched off so the DOP and his gaffer could go in there and they could experiment. And even actually, the little plastic figures, I put a little LED in their hand and then ran a cable off so you could stand somebody on the set to see how the set will be, so I’m still doing that.

And that’s 20 years later. I’m still holding big models and actually, the biggest model I’ve built so far is the Quiet Place: Day One. It must have been a six foot long model of the intersection, the big backlot set and you can see all the New York ones that we built. I still have big models with little toy cars, because actually, it’s still the best way to look at it and to get down low and look down the street and understand that. And it’s much easier to change things on a big model.

We get a pair of scissors in there and cut a bit off and then bend it back on itself and say, yeah, there’s this new rewrite with a little alleyway. Let’s cut that there and there, and let’s cut that little bit of store away and let’s make that. Let’s get some card here. Make a little alleyway set, that would work really well because then you come around and you would see up the street. A physical tabletop model is still invaluable, but everything is digital, so my team are drawing up. I’ve always done, in the last 15 years, it has become the norm that we’re drawing up everything in a computer but kind of elevations and plans and things for the construction team, but it’s very easy. It’s a small step to make those into something three dimensional.

And then to color it and then give that model to my concept artists. And they kind of photoshop all the textures and all the photographs I’ve taken of the noisy people and all the photographs I’ve taken of the colors of the fire escapes for different neighborhoods and things like that. They’re building a beautiful 2d visual like a piece of concept art.

We’ve got the tabletop model. We’ve got kind of beautiful visuals with cars on fire and all the things that you can’t do on a tabletop model and you can’t really do quickly, then having the virtual reality as well, you’ve understood what the set is, but now let’s kind of go onto the set and let’s walk around and understand that scale. On the back lot set, a lot of the stores had interiors, like the interior of the corner store, the bodega, so they took my quick model that I built of that, put that into the virtual reality model, so you could kind of walk in. You could go right in, and there was the guy standing behind the counter there and he had the ginger cat on the counter curb. You can walk around all the shelves and look around.

We put a couple of Humvees outside, so that shot of Samira watching the Humvees going past, I could adjust the height of the shelving and everything. We did all that in virtual reality. This was before we started building the backlot set, so this is three months before we started shooting, which is great because then, Michael and Pat and I, we’re all walking around on the backlot set seeing it come together and it seems very familiar and it was very important for all of us to be able to feel like we know what’s coming. It’s not scary. It’s a big step, but it’s not scary because we know what it looks like. We walked around on it three months ago. That’s why I think virtual reality is very useful. I’ve been using it for, I think, seven years.

I used it first on the tv show called Avenue Five because we had the same thing that Armando Iannucci had always insisted on shooting everything on location, everything, and suddenly we’re doing science fiction. I designed this massive atrium on the spaceship that was twelve stories high. This beautiful atrium you could look up inside, but we were only building three. He walked onto the set with the virtual reality goggles and went, “Wow!” I told him when you’re on set, you’ll be looking up at lighting guys having sandwiches up in the roof, but remember in the final thing, you’ll see all those stories and see people crossing and walking around, people looking down at you, you know, eight stories above you. (Trailer)

WAMG: So now you have your VR tools, the sets and you have your miniatures and models for Day One, how did you design that horrific tunnel scene with the water? I was thinking, he’s done this with The Descent because it’s in a cave and it’s claustrophobic. He’s done this with Dog Soldiers at the farmhouse and that’s very claustrophobic. And all of a sudden the tunnel’s getting smaller and smaller. There’s less room, less air pockets. It’s dark, and there’s the color palette of just grays and blacks. How did you design that tunnel scene as you did with the rest of the movie? 

SB: It’s funny, because that wasn’t originally in the script. And Michael came to me and said, I’m thinking about doing this tunnel scene, and I said let me show you a little bit of a movie I designed called The Descent. He knew my movie and asked, “how did you do that?” So I told him, and I was standing there in my office acting out, getting stuck in tunnels, and the roof getting lower, and he’s like, “so how do you do that? Do you kind of raise the water and you fill it with more water?” And I was like, no, no, we do the opposite. We bring the roof down to make it even less and less space, and you’re just sucking a tiny bit of air from a tiny bubble. And that’s how we did it on The Descent. We only built half of a cave for that scene in the water, so he’s like, we must do that. So we did. It was kind of written around our meeting about how those emotions are so raw and there’s no hope. When you know that there’s a creature behind you, you can only go forward, but you can see the roof is going down, but also the water level is rising, and it’s kind of swirling around. It was easier on The Descent because everybody had lights on them and torches and flashlights and things, whereas in this world, we know they have a small flashlight, but we must have some daylight. I came up with the idea of having these grills in the ceiling, so every now and again we all know those grills in New York, when you’re walking along, you almost see the train. You can see and hear it right under you, so let’s almost give them hope. It’s daylight and they just can’t get through the grill and it’s fixed on, and you just want to see that. Actually, we didn’t shoot it, but we talked about being able to see their fingers coming up through the grill, to get that sense of claustrophobia. I’m not claustrophobic which is why describing it to somebody is much more fun, because then you see their claustrophobia kicking in and then you know you’re onto a good thing.

WAMG: The whole film is such a triumph. What are some of the takeaways for you from working on this movie that you could bring to possibly future projects or future projects in this cinematic universe?

SB: I’m so lucky to have all the movies I’ve designed. I’ve learned so much and picked up so many things. It’s not just taking things from The Descent, it’s also taking things from movies like Hyde Park On Hudson, the Bill Murray movie, I learned so much from that as well. There’s character things that I take from everywhere. Some of them I’m aware of and some of them I’m not. I collect two feet of books, sitting on my bookshelf, on every movie. And I love to be surrounded by inspiration and enjoy taking things onto other projects.

I’ve never really been pigeonholed. I have initially in horror movies, but every horror movie was so different from the other one that it’s a joy to look back on what I’ve worked on, what I’ve learned from those, and taking it forward and also just working with amazing crews as well. It’s just so much fun. I love my job and I do love the research part of it as much as the making of it as well.

WAMG: All the Quiet Place films, including this one, they’re just known for sparking fan theories and those of us sitting in the theater, we were hoping for an Easter egg of sorts. After the credits, we were hoping that maybe we’re going to see them on the island from the second movie. Maybe we’re going to see the Abbott’s farmhouse from the first movie.

Are there any design elements that maybe you included that you hope will inspire the interest of the audience or something that they’ll discuss going, maybe this is a key to something else. Do you ever try to drop things in there? 

SB: Well, okay. So the writers have done their job and the producers have done their job. I hope that there will be more, but to answer your question, on Easter eggs, yes, there are things hidden in there for sure. The funniest thing is that actually so often people spot things. It was especially in The Descent, for some reason, there were elements in The Descent that people said, I see what you did there, what you were referencing. And I was like, what was it? There was like an eight track player, like on this really old cassette tape. There was a piece of dressing that I just liked this really old, like from a car, hooked up to a car battery. Like to be able to listen to old eight track sets. And somebody said, ah, that’s referencing some other classic movie that the eight track cassette player is in and they were like, you reference that, didn’t you in The Descent and I was like, you’ve got it. You get extra points for that.

And in Avenue Five, actually, as well, quite a few people have spotted things that I had put on purpose, that did actually reference another movie, another science fiction movie. I think that’s more exciting than people spotting what we have put in.

WAMG: Congratulations on the movie. It’s an amazing prequel and another really fantastic chapter in the Quiet Place universe. 

Lupita Nyong’o as “Samira” in A Quiet Place: Day One from Paramount Pictures.