ANTZ. SHREK. CHICKEN RUN. Since the 1990’s, film goers have been listening to the music of the incredibly talented composer, Harry Gregson-Williams, who helped shape the sound of modern animated films.

Gregson-Williams’s recent projects include the feature film THE DOG STARS, directed by Ridley Scott, starring Jacob Elordi, Margaret Qualley, and Josh Brolin which is in cinemas now and marks their eighth collaboration together and the upcoming ANIMALS starring Ben Affleck and Kerry Washington, directed by Affleck coming out in theaters on October 9 which marks their fourth collaboration together.

His previous films with Ben Affleck include Live by Night, THE TOWN, and GONE BABY GONE. Gregson-Williams is also known for his continued collaborations with Ridley Scott having written original scores for GLADIATOR II, THE MARTIAN, KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, THE LAST DUEL and HOUSE OF GUCI and themes for PROMETHEUS and EXODUS: GODS AND KINGS.

A riveting, cinematic thriller set in a world where survival is instinct, but humanity is a choice, THE DOG STARS is in theaters now. The film tells the story of Hig (Jacob Elordi), a young pilot who, together with a military survivalist, Bangley (Josh Brolin), has carved out an efficient but isolated homestead in a brutal post-apocalyptic world. But when Hig receives a mysterious radio transmission, he ventures into the unknown in search of the hope and humanity he still believes exist. Based on Peter Heller’s captivating bestseller, THE DOG STARS features a critically acclaimed ensemble, including Jacob Elordi, Josh Brolin, Margaret Qualley, Allison Janney, Benedict Wong, and Guy Pearce.

In a recent interview with the composer, Gregson-Williams and I discussed the wide range of films he’s worked on, his love of conducting his scores and collaborating on some of the grandest films with the most prolific directors.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m Michelle from We Are Movie Geeks.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Good title. Did you see Dog Stars?

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I did. Totally gutted by it. I really liked it. Been a huge fan of Ridley Scott’s since ALIEN.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, thanks.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I mean, I’ve been with this guy forever. I saw ALIEN that opening weekend when I was all of age 13, and it was, like, my first R-rated movie, so I have been with him since the beginning.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Wow. My relationship with him started with, in a roundabout way, started when I met his brother, and I scored ENEMY OF THE STATE, MAN ON FIRE, SPY GAME, THE TAKING OF THE PELHAM 1, 2, 3, all Tony’s films from from 1996 to the day he died, sadly. My intro to Ridley really started on the film KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, which I loved. I think it’s quite an underrated movie. It’s so gorgeous to look at.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Isn’t it?

Harry Gregson-Williams: It’s amazing and here we are 20 years later.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Fans love the director’s cut of KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yes, they do, and Ridley does as well. I remember when we were scoring it, and the film was pretty much what we see as the director’s cut now, but he was aware that he was going to have to cut it down for theaters for its theatrical release. And I remember asking him, how are you going to do that really? Because it doesn’t to me. I can’t see how you can do that. It seemed like a perfectly formed movie as it was, and he said, No, I’ve got a cunning plan. There’s something that I’m going to have to take out reluctantly for the cinematic release, but I’m going to pop it right back in if ever I can get a director’s cut, and sure enough, he did.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How did the conversation go with bringing you on his latest film?

Harry Gregson-Williams: Shortly after we finished GLADIATOR II, actually.  He’s very prolific, isn’t he? He seems to be working on the next one when we’re doing the present one, you know, thinking about it, planning it. He never stops. He’s industrious, but you know he’s a real artist at heart, literally he is. He paints for fun, and I think that’s how his brother started at art school in London, and they started in commercials and then came here to Los Angeles. He told me THE DOG STARS would be a very different ride, and I must say I was quite relieved. He said those words after we’d finished GLADIATOR II, because that was so intense. He said this is going to be a thoughtful movie about human connection and loss and the sharing of those emotions.

And then he scuttled off and shot it. He sent me the first cut and asked me to consider the score, and what to share with him, what I might be thinking of the 1st cut that I saw. I realized that I unlike, say, in our previous film, Gladiator II, where I leaned very heavily on an orchestral component to the score, but it didn’t seem that I would need that in this movie, although I did record orchestra, but it is one of the components that makes up the kind of sonic tapestry of what I went for. It seemed to me, as it’s not an urban movie, that it is set very much in the countryside. I started experimenting with all manner of shapes and sizes of guitars, electric and acoustic, ukuleles, Dobros. Anything that felt akin to what I saw on screen. And that’s kind of why I landed the palette for this movie. The musical palette for this movie was very much based on those instruments supported by the foundation that an orchestra can give you. This isn’t a big sweeping orchestral score. It didn’t seem like this. This story really needs to burst out in moments of anger and aggression, which are very fun to do. But the score is trying to carve out these emotions that the characters are feeling. It’s quite a personal movie, it’s a small cast of characters, and they share a lot of things in common, like loss. 

There’s the hope of something better somewhere else. But it’s interesting to work on a movie like this when all of us went through a COVID pandemic, which didn’t wipe out most of humanity, which I guess is a movie.

That’s where we find ourselves, but the possibility of something like that happening is a bit more real to us now, isn’t it? We saw huge swathes of the population threatened by something, and I guess that sort of leads us to believe that something like this, which is obviously more extreme, could result in the sort of scenario we find ourselves in THE DOG STARS. I loved the script and the geography of it all, even down to the plane. I remember saying to Ridley, God, I love the look of that plane, Rid. He said, Yeah, well, I was very. I love the color of it. It’s kind of mustard yellow.

These things are very intentional with him. I think the first cue that I wrote was Hig’s first flight, right at the beginning of the film. And that, just for me, Hig seems to be at his happiest and freest when he’s up in the air with his best buddy, which, of course, is his dog, Jasper, and that’s where he feels like he’s safest and happiest. There’s no dialogue up there, so music can help really inform the audience, the sort of emotional space that Hig is in, and of course that deteriorates during the film. It’s not always a happy place for him.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: There’s some heavy material in this. I mean, the whole end of the world.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, he spends a lot of time in his head, Hig? I mean, that’s what’s fascinating about his character and sometimes the music is able to inform us and help us and suggest things that he might be thinking of. I mean, in one scene, he’s up there, and he literally turns the engine off and we’ve got to wonder to ourselves, is he going to kill himself? Surely not. He’s got a dog beside him and musically, in that moment the music cue that I’d written had started maybe a minute or 2 before that, probably when Hig took off, I decided that the most effective way I could score that moment as he turns the engine off would be to come out into nothing at all and just have the sound effects of the wind breezing by, so there, you know, a lot of choices that one has to make along the way. Hopefully, that was a decent one.

There’s a sense of loneliness. There is a lot in most of these situations he finds himself in. And I think that’s why, you know, it is, it is a movie about connection and, and the need for connection and again, just going back to our own experiences with Covid, which must be perhaps the closest we’ve kind of come to that. Not exactly a decimation of humanity. But the fact that we were isolated, weren’t we? And that sense of isolation, I think it comes through pretty well in this film. And the fact that each of these characters are craving some sort of human connection.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I just need to ask you about the music cue for Jasper and his death, I mean, it just breaks the heart. I was listening to it again, I’ve listened to it a few times, and it’s such an emotional part of the movie, and the music is just perfect for that scene.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Ridley has dogs himself. I have a dog. And yeah, that was kind of a tough, tough moment. You know, my first effort at that moment in the score, Ridley’s reaction to it was, how much do we need the music here? HHow much do you think most audience members need help in feeling sorry for this moment? And the answer is not much. I mean, most people really would understand how hit he is by that moment. So, I was careful not to make the music overly sentimental, and that was very important, but as a sort of default in moments like that, rather than step into sentiment and too much emotion where the audience might be pushed away a little bit by that.

I’ve learned often in movies that I’ve done, not necessarily just movies I’ve done with Ridley, but a default sort of setting I would go for is more tension and leave the audience in a tense state with an underlying feeling of loss and the emotions that go with that. So, my 1st approach to it isn’t sadness, but like a sort of tension and suspended moment, so that the audience have a chance to feel what they want to feel, and the music’s not necessarily telling them they must feel this.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I thought there was just enough in it without it just bowling you over and taking over the scene. I did love the various cues and other parts of the movie, where there were a lot of guitars, folk sounds, as well as these classic rock sounds, like the Mennonite folk song, that was so unique. I was not expecting that.

Harry Gregson-Williams: That was written by Tony Lewis, who’s my music editor on this film. And he often will write music on the films that we do, from GLADIATOR II, all the way back to KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, music that we reference as source music. So that’s music that’s not actually the score. It’s music that has a source so that you can see that on screen. So, for instance, in another movie, in a romantic comedy or something, a piece of source music might be a couple walking into a room, and someone puts on the radio. That’s coming from a source, and that’s music that has to be provided, but not necessarily by the composer. I have enough music to create from nowhere that’s not got a source on screen. So the source music in this instance that you’re referring to is written by Tony Lewis. Yes. And I included that on the album because I like to love.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: At the end of the movie the very quietness of it. I loved that very emotional cue where Hig goes home. It was just a very nice way to take a breath.

Harry Gregson-Williams: There’s plenty of melancholy at that moment, isn’t it? And music is essentially an emotion, but without language. Right? So there’s in that scene he’s as he takes off by himself this time. No dog to go with him, and returns home, where we have a flashback of his wife for the last time patting him on the shoulder, as if to say, go, be free, you’ve got to move on. And yeah, the music is very sparse there, and the intention is that it has a sense of loneliness, and you know, deep emotion. But again, without hitting the audience over the head with that, allowing the actor Jacob Elordi to do his thing, and the audience to catch up to that moment. This is him saying goodbye to his wife.

But in this part, the world suddenly erupts into gunfire and explosions and violence. And that’s the two scenes with Bangley trying to defend the homestead and then Hig and Cima and Pops getting chased down by the people on horseback.

That’s kind of classic Ridley who knows how to stage an action sequence. But I love the dynamic in this film, and that gave me an opportunity musically to have a range in the score. Sometimes you’re scoring a film, and one’s kind of channeling one emotion, one feeling, one kind of tempo, if you like. But in this film the dynamic range had to be quite big, as we’ve already established. There are some very lonely, melancholy moments in the film, but they’re also exciting, tense action scenes. So that’s always fun as a composer to have such a dynamic in what one’s got to provide. It keeps life interesting, I can tell you.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How has the relationship with Ridley Scott developed over the years? You went from KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, PROMETHEUS, HOUSE OF GUCCI, GLADIATOR II and now this film. You two have done a lot of films together.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Well, how’s it developed over the years? Good question. I think it’s 8 or 9 movies that I’ve done with him.

He’s very steady and dependable and very interested in music. He understands the power of music in his films. Yeah, very much, very much so. And he’s sympathetic towards the process, which, the more time we get together, the better things are going to be. Obviously, in post-production, he’s pulled in many directions. You know, he’s got to review the edit, he’s got to review any visual effects that are going on as well as music. So yeah, I’ve learned over the years to make sure I schedule time with him, get him to come to my studio here and listen to ideas early. And he, in turn, has increasingly will involve me earlier and earlier, so that there’s plenty of time for me to maybe go up one path, and there’s time for me to come back down that path a bit, and then go off in another direction, if need be, you know, sometimes as a composer once employed with so little time that probably your 1st idea has got to be, if not your 1st, your second idea has got to be the one. Once he sets sail and gets going, it’s a Ridley Scott movie. With GLADIATOR 2, there was perhaps 100 min of music to write. I started as soon as he had finished shooting, and the post-production was a year and a half. So, I’ve learned that the more time I get, the better results we’re going to have. He’s all up for that. He loves the process.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: You can tell. And there was a great video that was released, with him talking about the music of GLADIATOR II, and how you work together. It was fascinating. Music is a huge part of his films, he gives a lot of consideration to how the music is going to sound, because it is an important part of his films.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yes, he does. And, you know, with Ridley, it’s a very collaborative process, and it needs to be, and one needs to be very open as a composer. But I’m also very aware that he has a lot of choices. Over the years he’s had people like Hans Zimmer, Vangelis, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith. I don’t expect the phone to go. But if the phone does ring and it’s ringing, I’m more than happy to jump on board. I love it.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Let’s switch to your upcoming project ANIMALS, Ben Affleck’s movie. What can you tell us about that?

Harry Gregson-Williams: I can tell you it’s a really good film and Ben’s in it and directing it. The last one that we did together where he was in it and directed it. Oh, I’ve done two with him that he’s been in and directed. One was LIVE BY NIGHT, and the other one, which I think a lot of people like, is THE TOWN and he was really good in that. The first film that he directed that I scored was GONE BABY, GONE. He stuck his brother in that.

When their son is kidnapped, an LA mayoral candidate and his wife scramble to raise the ransom while making choices that could tear their world apart. Directed by and starring Ben Affleck, with Kerry Washington, Steven Yeun, Gillian Anderson, Adriana Paz and Luis Gerardo Méndez, Animals is in select theaters and on Netflix October 9.

With ANIMALS, he asked me to do that around last Christmas. I got a call from him saying that he was a bit stuck with the music, and I said, I’ll do it. You don’t have to ask me twice, of course. So, I jumped into it, and I love it. I think it’s maybe the best part I’ve ever seen Ben in as an actor. I love it. Yeah, he’s good, really good. And it weirdly sort of perversely, he’s quite suited to the main role, because a lot of the movie takes place almost entirely within a very small radius of where I’m sitting right now, which is very close to where Ben has always lived since I’ve known him. So it’s Brentwood, the Palisades, Santa Monica – the west side of Los Angeles. And if you know this part of town, you recognize where he shot it. I mean, literally recognize streets, and places, and he plays a character so believable. I love it. And very similar to what we were just talking about with THE DOG STARS. There’s a huge dynamic range in this film. It was a tense thriller and I really liked it. I really liked the film, and I really liked his performance in it.

He’s really a thoughtful director and when it comes to music, he loves to be really involved, and we live close to each other and always have, actually on this side of LA and he will pop up in my studio of an evening pretty much unannounced. He likes to, he loves to, to, to kind of learn every beat of every bar of music that I’m creating and be there to influence its direction. You know, he’s a bit of a dream to work for as a composer, because he’s got a very clear direction, a very clear sense of the emotions that he’s trying to evoke. And this film is no different. No, it’s great fun. I can’t wait for it to come out.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81757047

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m looking forward to it. We’ve been listening to you since the 90s. I can’t tell you, I’m such a huge fan of CHICKEN RUN. I totally love it!

Harry Gregson-Williams: How did you like CHICKEN RUN 2?

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I love CHICKEN RUN and the second one, FLUSHED AWAY, SHREK, NARNIA, THE MEG, and with these films and your scores, they’re campy, fun “make-believe” musical characters.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Well, I’ve considered myself very, very lucky to have done the Shrek series in the beginning. But mostly during that time, the chap who directed the first couple of Shreks and executive produced all of them, Andrew Adamson, called me one day after we did Shrek 2 and said, “Look. I think I’m going to be directing The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and The Wardrobe. You wanna do it? I said, well, my God. So I don’t take these things for granted. That’s the great fortune I had there that Andrew went from Shrek to Narnia. I mean, had he gone from Shrek to, I don’t know, something else that might be okay. But that was a dream for me to be able to go into the Narnia series.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: I’m such a huge fan of FLUSHED AWAY and CHICKEN RUN. I think that your CHICKEN RUN score is so funny.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, I’ve got one for you. I wonder whether you’ve seen it. So it’s by the same people, the CHICKEN RUN people, but it’s the only one at that time they had only ever made their Claymation, you know, the stop motion thing, CHICKEN RUN.

But then they made a film called ARTHUR CHRISTMAS with Sony. That was an animation, as it were, computer generated animation, not little clay figures. And I love that film.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: These other films, they’re so much fun, and they’re fun to listen to, and the score just goes so well with those films, because they’re very different from the serious dramas.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Of course. I have 6 children, so I have to keep making movies, at least the younger ones, the older ones, they’re fine. They can watch movies. You know, there’s a few movies that I’ve done that I’ve had to keep hidden from the younger children, like Team America or whatever. That’s a no-go. Movies like Arthur Christmas, Flushed Away, Chicken Run, Chicken Run 2, Shrek, those things my kids, the younger ones, can watch. Obviously the ones who were around when I did SHREK, they’re much older, so they’ll enjoy THE DOG STARS where ANIMALS is kind of a tense thriller.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Have you conducted any of your scores?

Harry Gregson-Williams: Yeah, all of them.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: How do you like that? I’ve talked to some composers where they’re like, not on your life. I would never conduct any of my music. But you seem to like it.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, I do. It’s part of my process, so there are two trains of thought, I think, as composers and both are completely valid. You know, my old buddy Hans Zimmer doesn’t conduct his scores, but he knows how to do a score. There’s no prizes for conducting your own score. It’s a preference.

If you think about it, sort of geographically, if you’re conducting the score, you’re in with the orchestra, you can hear a certain amount of what’s going on, but you’ve got headphones on. If you don’t, somebody else will conduct the orchestra and you’ll be in the control room where you can hear precisely what’s going on. So that’s why a lot of composers would probably prefer to be in the control room because they’re control freaks. It’s not called the control room for no reason. No, what they’re trying to achieve is, you know, it doesn’t really matter who’s conducting the score.

They’re trying to achieve the best results, the best performance, and the best place to hear that, from their point of view, is in the control room. So for me, the best place for me to do that is out in the room with the orchestra, but it’s just a preference and doesn’t mean much either way.

Michelle McCue We Are Movie Geeks: Thank you so much. This has been a real treat.

Harry Gregson-Williams: Oh, it’s an absolute pleasure, Michelle, and I hope you like ANIMALS when it comes out. I think Ben’s really good in this film. He’s never been better.