NEVER SAY GOODBYE – THE KSHE DOCUMENTARY screens Saturday, November 11th at 2:00pm at The .ZACK (3224 Locust St.) as part of this year’s St. Louis International Film Festival. This is a FREE event.
In director Ron Stevens’ NEVER SAY GOODBYE, you’ll see the history of KSHE’s heyday, from its beginning in 1968 throughout the 1970’s and up to 1979. Hear never-before-heard stories from your favorite DJs: John Ulett, Mark Klose, Ron Stevens, Radio Rich, Joe “Mama” Mason, Gary Kolander, and many more. With appearances from Rodger Hodgson (formerly w/Supertramp), Poco, Mama’s Pride, Ozark Mountain Daredevils, and so much of the music you grew up with.
Ron Stevens’ took the time to answer some questions about NEVER SAY GOODBYE for We Are Movie Geeks in advance of the screening at this year’s ST. Louis International Film Festival:
Interview conducted by Tom Stockman
Tom Stockman: What inspired you to make a documentary about KSHE and how long has this project been living in your head?
Ron Stevens: Two years ago I began thinking about the fact that KSHE was quickly approaching its 50th anniversary. That’s when I began mentally toying with the idea of producing this documentary. It occurred to me that 50 was a lot of years to celebrate and the early years would be less significant to current listeners who were not even born yet. So over lunch with KSHE’s General Manager John Beck, Program Director Rick Balis and Operations Manager Tommy Mattern, I suggested as much and they all disagreed, saying that their younger listeners were very much fascinated with the 70’s and were hungry for KSHE history. In September of 2016, I decided to take the plunge, drop everything else in my life and charge in head first to produce this documentary. That’s when I first met with KSHE over lunch that day to let them know my plan. They asked if I wanted them to pay for it and I said no because I thought it was important to maintain creative control of the story. They pledged their dedicated support (probably out of relief that they didn’t have to pay for it) and gave me everything I asked for over the last year to make it happen. Within a month I was able to assemble an amazing crew that shared my enthusiasm for the project and begin the long, long process of producing a full-length documentary. My inspiration to make the documentary was two-fold: First, my knowledge of the history. I knew there was a good story there and I wanted it to be told. Secondly, the amazing enthusiasm of so many others who wanted this story to be told.
TS: What were some of the unexpected challenges you found as a first-time filmmaker?
RS: The challenges were mostly technical. I had spent the previous thirty years telling stories in short form for radio with the radio syndication company I ran. Joy and I were syndicated in over 700 cities around the world, delivering short form comedy bits on a daily basis to these radio stations. Each comedy bit was a form of storytelling that, like Twitter, required us to convey a message in as few words as possible. Like a stand up comedian, we needed to structure a joke to give just enough information so the punchline made sense to the listener. That was great basic training for telling stories. Also, during our years in Los Angeles in the 1980’s, I produced and directed a one hour video comedy special written by me, Joy and Alan Wenkus (who was later nominated for an Oscar for co-writing STRAIGHT OUT OF COMPTON). That was my first attempt at directing and editing long form video. Surprisingly, we sold it for a lot of money; but it was 1985 when video companies were hungry for comedy. When I retired four years ago, I formed OnStL here in St. Louis to produce short form videos about our wonderful city and the people who make it great. That, too, was great training for this project. But nothing really prepared me for the technical and organizational skills necessary to interview 44 people, ending up with 38 hours of interview material, and somehow edit that down to 95 minutes (94.7 minutes, to be exact), focusing on one general theme, keeping it interesting throughout. Fortunately, some of the crew members who joined me on this venture had many years of technical experience, along with the incredible patience, to guide me through the jungle. In particular, our Director of Photography, Jack Twesten, was there encouraging me, teaching me and guiding me every step of the way. He made it possible for me to focus on creative. Others, like Joe Mason of Mason Communications (also knowns as Joe “Mama” Mason during his KSHE days), moved the project along after I completed editing, to give it the true professional final touches. The real UNEXPECTED challenge came with music licensing. Who knew what a mess that world can be! Most of the great music of rock and roll is owned by a handful of companies. They basically control it all. So to use, say, 9 seconds of White Rabbit from Jefferson Airplane, first you have to determine who actually owns the song. That alone can soak up weeks. We negotiated for 6 weeks with Sony for a song they claimed they owned, but didn’t. One day they called and said, “Hey, turns out we don’t own the song. Sorry.” Six weeks down the drain, start over. The publishing company, once they know they actually own the damn song, doesn’t really care so much that you’re only using 9 seconds of their song. They want $1,500 for the use, plus other fees if you’re going to enter the film into a film festival, show it on broadcast tv, screen it publicly at a movie theater, and on and on. Then, when you FINALLY get it all worked out … you get to do it all over again with the record label that owns the master recording. So, using 9 seconds of a song can take several months and a few thousand dollars. Fortunately, I had two things in my favor: One, I had many rock stars who wanted to help. Those who still owned their own music, like JD Blackfoot, simply gave me the rights, no questions asked. The power of KSHE. Two, I had Lorren Cornelius. I met Lorren when he was a gofer at KSHE in the 70’s and I was Program Director. We both moved to Los Angeles in the 80’s and became good friends. Lorren became a top record executive and music producer in those years. He’s still working and living in Florida and he offered to take over this nightmare of music rights. I never had so much fun listening to this guy yell and scream at presidents of record labels, fighting for this little ol’ documentary. So, when you hear the recognizable songs in the documentary, thank Lorren and a few others who helped along the way. I should also point out that the generosity of many, MANY St. Louis musicians who grew up on KSHE and were inspired as musicians by KSHE made it possible to have great music THROUGHOUT the film. The list is long and their contributions to this story should not go unnoticed.
TS: Was there anyone you wanted to participate in the documentary that didn’t want to or that you could not track down?
RS: Good question. I actually had to turn down several rock artists, simply because of time. I was pretty much able to locate everyone who worked at KSHE for any significant time from 1967 to 1977, the timespan of the story. Peter Maer, who went on to become White House correspondent for CBS, flew in from Washington DC for his interview. Richard Palmese, who went all the way to President of MCA Records, flew in from Los Angeles to be interviewed. Richard Fendleman (Richard Fendel), who owns his own production company in Florida, conducted his interview from there, and Bill Addison, the very first voice heard on KSHE when it first came on the air in 1961, flew in from his Florida home to participate. These guys truly went out of their way at their own expense to be a part of this story.
TS: Tell me about your years at KSHE?
RS: I lived out my dream there. I, like everyone else back then, was hired with no previous experience in radio and was pretty much left to do whatever I wanted. That’s the heart of this story: how everyone working at KSHE from 1968 to 1976 had no previous experience in radio, including our boss, Shelley Grafman. The odds of a rock & roll radio station surviving under the conditions and circumstances we worked are laughable. But we didn’t just survive, we created a station that became known around the globe by 1976. I had the honor of being at the heart of this story as it happened. Then, like a lot of us who worked there back then, I spent the rest of my life reaping the benefits of this amazing bootcamp for life. I was paid, supported, encouraged and rewarded for playing rock music and finding fun, creative, profitable ways to share it all with everyone my age growing up in St. Louis. Imagine that.
TS: You met your wife at KSHE. Tell me about that.
RS: Joy “In the Morning” Grdnic showed up like a bolt of lightening in a quiet winter storm. She had more creativity, more guts, more sense for adventure than any of the guys working there. And she was a beautiful, sexy blond. Again… what are the odds? What are the odds that such a person could ever survive this male pig pen of rock & roll radio? She didn’t just survive, she took us all to a whole new level and gained the friendship and respect of every “guy” in the building in the process. We all loved her, but I fell in LOVE with her in every way imaginable. I was head over heals. We began living together within a year of her employment at KSHE and were married in 1974 while we both worked there. We found out a year after our wedding that everyone at KSHE had bets on how long our marriage would last. To add insult to injury, no one bet over 12 months. Ha! It’s been 44 years now.
TS: What made KSHE stand apart from other rock stations in the ‘70s?
RS: Shelley Grafman. He was the brother of the president of Century Broadcasting, Howard Grafman. Before Howard asked his brother to take over running the station, Shelley was selling insurance policies door-to-door. Shelley was in his early 40’s and a father of four young kids. In any way you can imagine he was not the right choice to run a rock FM radio station in 1968, when he took over. Within a year, any on-air personalities with experience were gone and kids right out of high school who shared a passion for the music were hired. Steve Rosen, Gary Bennett, Don Corey were either still in high school or recent graduates. “Sir” Ed Rickert was in college. Shelley did the unthinkable. He hired kids and let them actually run the place. No rock station or ANY radio station dared to do this. He trusted and respected us. He recognized our talents and nurtured them. He made sure our voices were heard. He took chances that today would scare the holy crap out of any radio station manager. Within months of me being hired at KSHE, I walked into Shelley’s office and pitched an idea to him. As soon as I said, “I have an idea” he dropped his pen and sat back to listen. I described what I called a “Musical Bizarre.” It would be a concert, but bizarre because of the strange mix of musical styles. I would have a rock band, a blue grass band, a honky tonk piano player (my mom) and a jazzy lounge singer. Shelley thought about it for a beat or two and said okay. I said what? He repeated, “Okay. It’s your idea. Go do it.” That was the day my life was set on a path for which I am forever grateful. That feeling can never be accurately described when your boss says yes. Do it. It yours to do. Then he offered his support and said he would get 7UP to sponsor it so I didn’t have to worry about expenses. Imagine that. Then he said, “You should have an out-of-town act for a headliner. There’s this guy in Chicago who just released his first album, here’s his phone number. Call him up and see if he wants to come in to promote his album, it’s pretty good. His name is Billy Joel.” So the very first concert I produced starred Billy Joel. And my mom opened for him.
TS: What is KSHE like today?
RS: This is the key to their 50 years. They were purchased by the perfect company to seal their success and curate it through the years. Emmis Communications, headed by Jeff Smulyan probably understood what they had when they bought KSHE better than any other company that could have purchased the station. They got it, respected it and hired guys like John Beck and Rick Balis to nurture it to the rock monster it has become. It’s still fun to walk into their studios, still fun to listen and still fun to see the people who make it happen day in and day out. I hope everyone who works there appreciates the amazing thing they have working for a company like Emmis. Joy and I had the pleasure of working for Emmis in New York. We got to see close up what a great company they are. KSHE is still KSHE thanks to them. They only changed as needed to meet the changing needs of the market and the industry.
TS: Where does the title of the doc, NEVER SAY GOODBYE, come from?
RS: As you might imagine, we labored over a title for some time. It’s like naming a band. You want it to convey a feeling, a sentiment, or a philosophy. Most of the titles we tried didn’t quite hit that mark. They seemed cheap and superficial. Any references to Sweetmeat seemed too commercial sounding. Ha! NEVER SAY GOODBYE was put on a list by me. I would send an occasional list around to the crew to have them check off names they liked. No one picked NEVER SAY GOODBYE, but I kept it on the list because it just kept staring back at me. It spoke to me about my feelings about rock n roll. Rock has aged, we have aged, KSHE has aged, but we’re all still here, we still listen and still enjoy rock. We never said goodbye. Then, in the process of looking for music for the film, I came across a song by Eric Lysaght called “Goodbye” and it caught my eye. It’s a very hauntingly sad sounding song where he simply sings “You never said goodbye.” At the time we were shooting the scene where we all visited the old KSHE site at 9434 Watson Road. I couldn’t think of that location anymore without thinking about that song. It was like the ghost of Watson Road telling me to use this song and that solidified my commitment to the title. Soon after, Cat Mues, who was helping me with music rights from local musicians, handed me the song “Never Say Goodbye” by Richie Callison. The first time I heard it, I knew it was meant to be and Richie was more than happy to let us use it. Later I learned from Richie that the song is about two generations of family that served in Iraq and the fear of losing someone else to war. The song touches me every time I hear it and I feel it gave even deeper meaning to our title.
TS: Where did you dig up so much of the great archival footage?
RS: That was an ongoing process over the entire year of production and the items came from dozens of sources. I personally shot the old Super-8 footage in the KSHE studios of me, Joy, Sir Ed, Bob Burch and Shelley Grafman on the air. I also shot the front office footage, the KSHE picnic footage and the footage at Capital Radio in London. All of that came off my Super-8 camera in 1975 and 1976. The footage around St. Louis in the 70’s, coming over the bridge, the Arch, the old stadium, etc, was footage discovered by John Neiman, author of In Concert: KSHE and 40+ Years of Rock in St. Louis. He told me he found it at a garage sale in Chicago. The footage of Janis Joplin in Forest Park was a big surprise to me. I was talking to Toby Weiss, who supplied some of her rock & roll art work for the project and she told me about it and gave me the name of the person who owned it, Tom Lunt. I called Tom and he was happy to give me permission to use it. It wasn’t until after I secured the film that I realized I had the story BEHIND Janis’s visit to Forest Park from Richard Palmese. So it all came together beautifully. I also received additional video footage of KSHE taken in 1983 by Radio Rich Dalton.
TS: What was your favorite thing about making this documentary?
RS: First, meeting everyone who helped. I made a lot of new, creative, generous friends. And then… the editing. I loved editing it. That’s where the story really comes together. That’s where the art of telling the story comes to life. I learned more in 6 months of editing this work than anything I’ve ever done with video or film. My previous 30 years of editing audio taught me a lot about all the tools I have at my disposal to tell a story. There’s so much more than just the words and the images. You have to consider ALL of the elements every second of the way throughout the process. The words, the order you place them, the pacing, the sound effects, the music, the images, the order of those images, the duration of each image, each transition, each motion. Every second of the way, you’re directing the attention of the viewers in helping them follow your storyline. You have to know when to pause and take a breath and when to speed up the story to get to a point. I never grew tired of that process. I decided before I began that I wanted to mimic a Woody Allen style of film editing, but in a documentary. The fast pacing and overlapping of words to make the pieces seem more like natural conversation was intentional. It’s almost as if we’re actually interrupting each other at some points. As the excitement in telling a particular story grew, the pace picked up and as pieces became more serious or more emotional, it slowed down. That was a process I wanted to explore going into it and I was happy with the outcome.
TS: Any plans on making another documentary and if so, what about?
RS: The next one is already in the works. Joy is rehabbing a very historic home in Soulard. It was built in 1876 for a Doctor Arzt on top of a man-made cave to create a grotto. The history of the home, along with the history of Soulard, is a very colorful one. We bought it three years ago and Joy committed herself to restoring it as much to its original look and glory as humanly possible. The previous owner bought it back in the early 70’s when Soulard was just beginning its renaissance that is now blossoming all these years later. But this home remained unfinished, barely holding on for dear life when Joy discovered it. The project really needed the love and care that an artist like Joy could bring it. We still don’t live in it, because every… single … inch of the home had to be repaired, restored, or rehabbed in some way. Everything. Amazingly, however, all the beautiful woodwork was still there, just in terrible shape. Dr. Arzt built an alley house behind the home for his clinic and he would enter the clinic through a tunnel going from his house, under the back courtyard and into the back structure. Today the alley house is two apartments, still part of the main complex. Dr. Arzt also created the very first heat radiation system in the midwest, which is still there, along with an air-conditioning system that you can still see throughout. Rumors about the suicide in the house and the mysterious tunnel that goes under the street to another building still persist. During the 20’s through the 50’s the main house was broken up into multiple residences, which we are in the process of documenting with the various families that lived there at the time. It’s a fun project but very different than the rock n roll documentary that is NEVER SAY GOODBYE.
