Interview
SLIFF 2019 Interview: Ben Scholle – Director of THROUGH THE CRACKS
THROUGH THE CRACKS screened November 10th at The St. Louis International Film Festival.
In July 2002, Johnny Johnson was arrested and charged with the abduction and murder of 6-year-old Cassandra Williamson in Valley Park, Mo., and the effects of the crime continue to reverberate in the community. During the capital-murder trial, a proceeding clouded by questions of mental illness and competency, a juror described the killing as “the worst possible crime.” “Through the Cracks” seeks to answer the question: Does the worst possible crime deserve the worst possible punishment? Director Ben Scholle, a professor of digital cinema arts at Lindenwood University, co-directed “HairKutt,” which was named Best Documentary by the jury at the 2005 St. Louis Filmmakers Showcase.
In attendance was director Ben Scholle, George Lombardi, psychologist and former Missouri Department of Corrections director, and Jeanie Thies, Lindenwood University professor of political science and coordinator of the Hammond Institute’s Criminal Justice Reform Initiative.
In July 2002, Johnny Johnson was arrested and charged with the abduction and murder of 6-year-old Cassandra Williamson in Valley Park, Mo., and the effects of the crime continue to reverberate in the community. During the capital-murder trial, a proceeding clouded by questions of mental illness and competency, a juror described the killing as “the worst possible crime.” THROUGH THE CRACKS seeks to answer the question: Does the worst possible crime deserve the worst possible punishment? Director Ben Scholle, a professor of digital cinema arts at Lindenwood University, co-directed “HairKutt,” which was named Best Documentary by the jury at the 2005 St. Louis Filmmakers Showcase.
Ben Scholle took the time to talk to We Are Movie Geeks about his film and his thoughts about the death penalty case at its center.
Interview conducted October 31st 2019 by Tom Stockman (who had not seen THROUGH THE CRACKS at the time of the interview)
Tom Stockman: Congratulations on your film THROUGH THE CRACKS. You teach film at Lindenwood University.
Ben Scholle: I do.
TS: I’ve been on the jury for the St. Louis Filmmakers Showcase for a number of years and I’ve noticed more and more student films are coming from Lindenwood.
BS: Yes, we’ve been really pushing that. I think some of our students just thought their films wouldn’t be good enough for competition, but in recent years that attitude has changed.
TS: The local films at the local showcase just seem to be getting better every year.
BS: I’ve noticed that as well. Part of that is that production value is just so much more accessible than it used to be. Things used to look different when they were shot on VHS or 16mm, but now anyone can get a decent looking image if they have the time and put an effort into it.
TS: Let’s talk about THROUGH THE CRACKS. How did you first get interested in the story of Johnny Johnson and the abduction murder of Cassandra Williamson?
BS: I first heard about the case when I moved back to St. Louis in 2002. I remember the story in the news., and I remember the story lingering throughout the trial and prosecution Around 2012, I was contacted by the Missouri public defender’s office about doing a documentary film. At first they wanted me to work on a different case. They had a client who wanted to have a film made about his case and to raise awareness about his situation. I met with them and we talked about the case, and they gave me some files and things. I told them that if I did it, I would want to explore the whole story and not just do it for their client. I wanted to cover all sides. Then the client had second thoughts about doing that. I think he was worried about what other stuff might come out in the course of a documentary. Subsequently, they brought up the case of Johnny Johnson, a case that they said had been haunting them for years. That’s when I became involved in this project about the Johnny Johnson case.
TS: Where is Johnny Johnson now?
BS: He’s currently on death row in Potosi Missouri.
TS: Did you get a chance to interview him for this documentary?
BS: I got a chance to meet Johnny. We ended up not doing an interview. In the meeting that we had, he talked, but he didn’t really talk about the crime and it was clear that he had no recollection of it. It honestly didn’t seem like an interview would be all that useful to the story because so much of the story was covered elsewhere. I have his voice in the film in his confession which was done immediately after the crime. It didn’t seem like he or his attorneys had much interest in getting him into the film. I was conscious of that. I explored ways to have his voice in there. I wanted to perhaps film a visit down to the prison with him and his mom, but that ended up not working out. The department of corrections wasn’t crazy about that idea. He ended up being present in the confession tapes and that audio, but otherwise he’s pretty much absent from the film .
TS: How old was Johnny Johnson when he was arrested in 2002?
BS: He was in his early 20s
TS: Was he a neighbor of Cassandra Williamson? How did they cross paths?
BS: His family had connections with her family. His sister had gone to school with Cassandra‘s mom. She was friends with their family and he also knew them from school and living in the area and just being generally connected. What happened was, the night of the murder, he was homeless. He was kind of wandering the streets of Valley Park and the Williamson family invited him to come in and sleep on their couch. It turns out that he was un-medicated at the time. He had been diagnosed as schizophrenic but he had stopped attending his appointments with his psychiatrist and stopped taking his meds. He’d sort of gone “off the grid”.
TS: Do his defenders think he was innocent of this crime, or just so mentally incompetent that he should not have received the death penalty?
BS: In general, everyone agrees that he was the perpetrator of this crime. Johnny has never even contested that He confessed immediately and he’s never claimed that it wasn’t him. His attorneys conceded that. The question in the trial was whether he would live or be sentenced to death. That’s really what the trial was about. It was a first-degree murder conviction and he was eligible for the death penalty. But the question is whether his mental illness was a reason not to send it to him to death row.
TS: Were you able to interview members of the Johnson and Williamson families?
BS: Yes, that was probably the most interesting thing , talking to members of both families and getting their perspectives. I feel that’s where you really get two different perspectives on this event. Everyone views it as a tragedy and obviously Johnny‘s family would like for him not to have been sentenced to death. They don’t think they expect him to ever come home, but I think that for them, they would like to see something happen that saves his life. His attorneys feel the same way. The Williamson family, on the other hand, all support the death sentence for Johnny Johnson. They feel that it was right and just and I feel that they look forward to seeing it carried out. I think that it’s important that with each of those viewpoints, we put a human face on it. If you come from an anti-death penalty background, I think it’s really important to hear what the family of the victim has to say about that. And if you are a pro death penalty it’s important to hear what the family of the convicted has to say as well.
TS: Is there anybody that you wanted to talk to that did not want to cooperate?
BS: I would not say that there was anyone who did not want to cooperate. I threw out a net and invited members of both families to talk and not surprisingly, not everyone wanted to. There was one brother of Johnny‘s that I would like to have talked to, but he just was not interested. With Cassandra‘s family, I reached out to her aunt Della, Who was really sort of the public face of the family. She had created a memorial website and has hosted a memorial event every year in Valley Park. She was very forthcoming and talked a lot about it She took us on a tour of different places in Valley Park that were relevant to the case. I told her that I was also would like to have talked to Casey’s immediate family. I even called Cassandra‘s mom and left her a voicemail, but I got the impression they really didn’t want any part of it. But honestly, I think it’s very difficult It’s not something I really wanted to push because here I come along trying to turn up stuff that they have spent many years trying to get over. Even when we screened the film at the St. Louis Filmmaker Showcase, I was talking to members of Casey‘s family and they thought this was a very difficult thing for them. We had a bit of news coverage prior to the showcase screening that caught them off-guard. It really brought the story back into the forefront of their consciousness, which was something they were not ready for. It’s asking a lot to ask people to relive something like that. The families come from different backgrounds. They have different perspectives and feelings but everyone agrees that going through the difficulty and pain of reliving all of this is worth it if it can make a difference for other people. In the future, if somebody who has seen this film is more likely to get help for a family member who is living with untreated mental illness, or someone who is more likely to be conscious of the safety of their children, then that makes it worth doing. I think this explains their willingness to be involved in the film
TS: I heard that the Q&A after the screening of your film at last summer’s Filmmaker Showcase got a bit heated.
BS: I wouldn’t say heated, but I would say the Q&A was a bit difficult because we did have members of Cassandra‘s family there. Everybody was conscious of that. It’s difficult for me to talk about the film and the filmmaking when I’m trying to be conscious of how everything comes off to the family. It’s not my story. It’s a story that I have adopted and it’s a story that I am telling and I’m trying to relate to the audience my journey through this, but ultimately it’s their story. It’s a bit uncomfortable to be the public face of it, but that Q&A was a good conversation and really powerful for an audience.
TS: Have you screened THROUGH THE CRACKS at other film fests?
BS: No, I have a university screening booked in January I’d like to find a higher in the market for it if I can. It’s probably a good companion for some psych or criminal justice curriculum. For the Q&A when we screen it at SLIFF, we are going to have two people there with criminal justice background so it will be more of a panel.
TS: Have there been any developments in this criminal case since your film has been completed?
BS: Johnny’s last state appeal was denied but it could go to a federal appeal court or maybe eventually to the Supreme Court. I think at this point that’s all still in the works. It’s a very long and drawn out process
TS: Has the Johnson family described to you how Johnny’s mental condition is now after being in prison for the past 17 years?
BS: Interestingly, I think one thing that you find is being in prison allows doctors to stabilize your meds. If someone is un-medicated on the streets, they are more likely to be stabilized in prison. I think him being medicated resulted in us having no real conversation, or at least any conversation of a substance. I think being medicated in prison today takes away a lot of your affect and memory and ability to express yourself. I talked to the attorneys about what would be the best outcome for him and they thought that, barring some sort of institution, because there really is very little State support for mental health cases, prison is not a terrible place for him. Probably a majority of inmates have some sort of psychiatric condition. In a way, prisons have turned into the new mental institutions That being the case, him being there is probably not the worst outcome, but so many don’t want to see him lose his life.
TS: Did being involved in this project change your view of the death penalty?
BS: I wouldn’t say it changed my view. I entered into this with an anti-death penalty view and came out of it feeling more or less the same way, But I do think it changed my outlook and my ability to empathize with people on the other side of the argument. And that’s what films are supposed to do. I made this film to take an issue and attach a human face to it and to help people try to understand it in more depth than they typically do in everyday conversation. One thing that I really like about a film like this, where you have two different sides of an issue, is that what emerges after you have talked to everybody, There’s always something that everybody agrees on. I think it’s important to figure out where the consensus lies With THROUGH THE CRACKS, the consensus was that no one thinks the crime should have happened. Everyone believes that it was preventable and that if we had better services for mental illness, things like this would happen less often. It feels good to have that sort of take-away.
TS: Good luck with THROUGH THE CRACKS and all of your future projects.
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